The Reality of Living in Australia and Covid

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

I have changed my mind about the benefits of extreme measures such as extended stay-at-home lockdowns. They are very effective.

They subdue the population superbly. People are then grateful for the smallest scraps of freedom thrown at them and will eventually accept almost anything to gain some return to normality, even eventually supporting the restrictions and praising the enforcers. Stockholm syndrome is being illustrated beautifully in Australia.

In Melbourne (that has now had around 240 days of stay-at-home lockdown in total, much of it with a curfew that is still to be lifted) an hour’s outdoor exercise extended to two was greeted with thanks. When children’s playgrounds reopened (with one masked adult supervising their child not permitted to remove their mask to eat or drink) gratitude was expressed again. The recent permission of being able to meet a limited number of vaccinated friends or family outdoors for a picnic was cause for huge celebration.

Exit plans have now finally been revealed. Vaccination targets for the entire adult population as a whole, not specifically the vulnerable, have been set. The PM’s promise that vaccination would not be mandatory is worthless given these decisions are in the hands of state premiers. Individuals with now a heady sense of power. It is not just health and care workers and anyone associated with border control and quarantine that vaccination is required to be able to work. In Victoria it is not even school teachers and construction workers. It will be the students themselves next year, secondary schools and universities included. It also seems any return to work will not be permitted unless vaccinated. This has been left up to some employers, but they risk legal action if not mandating this.

There seems little resistance to this. There have been minimal protests apart from the latest violent ones, which does the cause no good. The lockdowns have numbed people to accept conditions that would have been scoffed at not that long ago. Not only to accept conditions, but inform on those seen or suspected to be breaking the rules.

Anyone hesitant is not just termed an anti-vaxxer now, but offensive terms such as “rat-licker”. In an attempt to gain a vaccinated target figure to enable restrictions to be lifted, the unvaccinated are being severely ostracised. The bulk of the population is now cheering on the extreme measures of mass vaccinating those at low risk of severe illness with very new forms of vaccine that only have provisional approval. Full approval has not been given as we know nothing about long term side effects and do not even have similar types of vaccines to compare.

This is even worse than I feared.

SWL

Standby for the backlash...
Very well stated...
Build Back Better has begun..

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Standby for the backlash...
Very well stated...

They are all asleep at the moment.
I am safe for a few more hours .

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

I have changed my mind about the benefits of extreme measures such as extended stay-at-home lockdowns. They are very effective.

They subdue the population superbly. People are then grateful for the smallest scraps of freedom thrown at them and will eventually accept almost anything to gain some return to normality, even eventually supporting the restrictions and praising the enforcers. Stockholm syndrome is being illustrated beautifully in Australia.

In Melbourne (that has now had around 240 days of stay-at-home lockdown in total, much of it with a curfew that is still to be lifted) an hour’s outdoor exercise extended to two was greeted with thanks. When children’s playgrounds reopened (with one masked adult supervising their child not permitted to remove their mask to eat or drink) gratitude was expressed again. The recent permission of being able to meet a limited number of vaccinated friends or family outdoors for a picnic was cause for huge celebration.

Exit plans have now finally been revealed. Vaccination targets for the entire adult population as a whole, not specifically the vulnerable, have been set. The PM’s promise that vaccination would not be mandatory is worthless given these decisions are in the hands of state premiers. Individuals with now a heady sense of power. It is not just health and care workers and anyone associated with border control and quarantine that vaccination is required to be able to work. In Victoria it is not even school teachers and construction workers. It will be the students themselves next year, secondary schools and universities included. It also seems any return to work will not be permitted unless vaccinated. This has been left up to some employers, but they risk legal action if not mandating this.

There seems little resistance to this. There have been minimal protests apart from the latest violent ones, which does the cause no good. The lockdowns have numbed people to accept conditions that would have been scoffed at not that long ago. Not only to accept conditions, but inform on those seen or suspected to be breaking the rules.

Anyone hesitant is not just termed an anti-vaxxer now, but offensive terms such as “rat-licker”. In an attempt to gain a vaccinated target figure to enable restrictions to be lifted, the unvaccinated are being severely ostracised. The bulk of the population is now cheering on the extreme measures of mass vaccinating those at low risk of severe illness with very new forms of vaccine that only have provisional approval. Full approval has not been given as we know nothing about long term side effects and do not even have similar types of vaccines to compare.

This is even worse than I feared.

SWL

Pfizer now has full approval in the U.S.


Aren't you feeling more confident in the vaccines by now? Surely a billion people and nearly a year would tell us quite a lot about possible side effects?

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Pfizer now has full approval in the U.S.

Only for adults. Authorisation is still only for emergency use for individuals 12-15 years of age. It has been postulated that approval in the US was gained simply to encourage vaccination. An unusual move, particularly since the FDA website acutally states: “Information is not yet available about potential long-term health outcomes.”. No other vaccine or drug has ever been approved without long term data.

My confidence in the decisions made by the FDA went down after they approved widespread booster doses of Pfizer after the CDC’s vaccine advisory committee voted against this for all but the elderly and some people with underlying medical conditions.

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Aren't you feeling more confident in the vaccines by now? Surely a billion people and nearly a year would tell us quite a lot about possible side effects?

A billion people and nearly a year gives me excellent confidence about short term risks for adults. Confidence is slowly growing with long term risks and will increase with each passing year.

If I had a young child there is still no way I would want them vaccinated against COVID-19. In contrast there would be no hesitancy at all with other standard vaccinations given to children.

SWL

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Standby for the backlash...

Very well stated...

Build Back Better has begun..

No back lash.people just want to see the back of this. Most don’t cate about the ethics

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

No back lash.people just want to see the back of this. Most don’t cate about the ethics

I was referring to the anti ratlickers..

Pommie's don't get a say..

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Pfizer now has full approval in the U.S.


Aren't you feeling more confident in the vaccines by now? Surely a billion people and nearly a year would tell us quite a lot about possible side effects?

As of now over 2 million people reported sideeffects from the vaccines, no other drug in all the years has reported anything close to this.

https://youtu.be/ckIQhGKyvd4
Around minute 20


http://www.vigiaccess.org/

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

As of now over 2 million people reported sideeffects from the vaccines, no other drug in all the years has reported anything close to this.

2 million cases of side effects out of 6 billion doses?



Even if that's true, that's one in 3000. No other drug has had such a rate of side effects? You have a cite for that?

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Entrenched - really?

Yep, entrenched.

It's a matter of the nature of the creature. The right tends to laziness however the left is like bed bugs. You get one in the bed, the next day three, within a week hundreds and a serious infestation. It's the nature of the creature.

[El Pinguino]

I think we can see from what has happened in Norway that lockdowns aren't good for one's mental health.

561 days of lockdown and then they all go mad.

This list is from Wiki
'Prevention measures and response
The Norwegian Directorate of Health introduced a number of measures from Thursday 12 March 2020

All educational institutions were closed and organized sports activities were to be discontinued.
A number of events and businesses were closed, including cultural events, sports events, gyms and swimming pools. All establishments in the hospitality industry such as bars, pubs and clubs other than those serving food were to close, and any establishment serving food would have to ensure that visitors could stay at least 1 meter apart.
Healthcare professionals working with patient care were prohibited from traveling abroad until 20 April 2020. The ban applied to both business travel and private travel.
Everyone who had returned from trips outside Sweden and Finland since 27 February were to quarantine, regardless of whether they showed symptoms or not.
Leisure travel was strongly discouraged. The Directorate discouraged travelling to work unless strictly necessary and encouraged avoiding public transport if possible, as well as avoiding crowded places.
People were requested not to visit others in institutions with vulnerable groups (the elderly, psychiatry, prison etc.) and generally encouraged to limiting close contact with others.
The public transport schedule was to run as normal, to ensure that people with critical social functions could get to and from work and be able to distance themselves from each other.
On 16 March, non-residents were banned from entering Norway

As of 19 March, residents were prohibited from staying in cabins outside their home municipalities, in order to avoid putting strain on rural medical infrastructure. People suspected or confirmed to be infected must follow stricter home isolation rules. The government established fines for people violating home quarantine and home isolation rules or organizing events.

Economic policy
Many institutions were closed in order to fight the outbreak, which led to increased unemployment. '

Sounds on a par - but for far longer - with the restrictions in Melbourne.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

As of now over 2 million people reported sideeffects from the vaccines, no other drug in all the years has reported anything close to this.

https://youtu.be/ckIQhGKyvd4
Around minute 20


VigiAccess

Data from the cdc

“For public awareness and in the interest of transparency, CDC is providing timely updates on the following serious adverse events of interest:

Anaphylaxis after COVID-19 vaccination is rare and has occurred in approximately 2 to 5 people per million vaccinated in the United States. Severe allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis, can occur after any vaccination. If this occurs, vaccination providers can effectively and immediately treat the reaction. Learn more about COVID-19 vaccines and allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis.
Thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome (TTS) after Johnson & Johnson’s Janssen (J&J/Janssen) COVID-19 vaccination is rare. As of September 15, 2021, more than 14.7 million doses of the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine have been given in the United States. CDC and FDA identified 47 confirmed reports of people who got the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and later developed TTS. Women younger than 50 years old especially should be aware of the rare but increased risk of this adverse event. There are other COVID-19 vaccine options available for which this risk has not been seen. Learn more about J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and TTS.
To date, two confirmed cases of TTS following mRNA COVID-19 vaccination (Moderna) have been reported to VAERS after more than 367 million doses of mRNA COVID-19 vaccines administered in the United States. Based on available data, there is not an increased risk for TTS after mRNA COVID-19 vaccination.
CDC and FDA are monitoring reports of Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS) in people who have received the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine. GBS is a rare disorder where the body’s immune system damages nerve cells, causing muscle weakness and sometimes paralysis. Most people fully recover from GBS, but some have permanent nerve damage. After more than 14.7 million J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine doses administered, there have been around 201 preliminary reports of GBS identified in VAERS as of September 15, 2021. These cases have largely been reported about 2 weeks after vaccination and mostly in men, many 50 years and older. CDC will continue to monitor for and evaluate reports of GBS occurring after COVID-19 vaccination and will share more information as it becomes available.
Myocarditis and pericarditis after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. As of September 15, 2021, VAERS has received 1,491 reports of myocarditis or pericarditis among people ages 30 and younger who received COVID-19 vaccine. Most cases have been reported after mRNA COVID-19 vaccination (Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna), particularly in male adolescents and young adults. Through follow-up, including medical record reviews, CDC and FDA have confirmed 890 reports of myocarditis or pericarditis. CDC and its partners are investigating these reports to assess whether there is a relationship to COVID-19 vaccination. Learn more about COVID-19 vaccines and myocarditis.
Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 386 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through September 20, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 7,899 reports of death (0.0020%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records, has not established a causal link to COVID-19 vaccines. However, recent reports indicate a plausible causal relationship between the J&J/Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine and TTS, a rare and serious adverse event—blood clots with low platelets”

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

I think we can see from what has happened in Norway that lockdowns aren't good for one's mental health.

561 days of lockdown and then they all go mad.

Naah.. standard practice..
Spent a winter in Agua Dulce with a big wooden MFV conversion crewed by 2 Swedes, 3 Norske and a Finn..
They had one cabin which they would use as a sauna once a week, others welcome.. a Lot of Vodka used to flow on sweat nights..
A wild bunch..

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

I think we can see from what has happened in Norway that lockdowns aren't good for one's mental health.

561 days of lockdown and then they all go mad.

This list is from Wiki
'Prevention measures and response
The Norwegian Directorate of Health introduced a number of measures from Thursday 12 March 2020

All educational institutions were closed and organized sports activities were to be discontinued.
A number of events and businesses were closed, including cultural events, sports events, gyms and swimming pools. All establishments in the hospitality industry such as bars, pubs and clubs other than those serving food were to close, and any establishment serving food would have to ensure that visitors could stay at least 1 meter apart.
Healthcare professionals working with patient care were prohibited from traveling abroad until 20 April 2020. The ban applied to both business travel and private travel.
Everyone who had returned from trips outside Sweden and Finland since 27 February were to quarantine, regardless of whether they showed symptoms or not.
Leisure travel was strongly discouraged. The Directorate discouraged travelling to work unless strictly necessary and encouraged avoiding public transport if possible, as well as avoiding crowded places.
People were requested not to visit others in institutions with vulnerable groups (the elderly, psychiatry, prison etc.) and generally encouraged to limiting close contact with others.
The public transport schedule was to run as normal, to ensure that people with critical social functions could get to and from work and be able to distance themselves from each other.
On 16 March, non-residents were banned from entering Norway

As of 19 March, residents were prohibited from staying in cabins outside their home municipalities, in order to avoid putting strain on rural medical infrastructure. People suspected or confirmed to be infected must follow stricter home isolation rules. The government established fines for people violating home quarantine and home isolation rules or organizing events.

Economic policy
Many institutions were closed in order to fight the outbreak, which led to increased unemployment. '

Sounds on a par - but for far longer - with the restrictions in Melbourne.

No, the restrictions in Norway were not even close to those in Melbourne. Chalk and cheese. There was no "lockdown", ever, in Norway, defined as stay at home orders and mass closing of businesses.

Schools were closed only briefly (as elsewhere in the Nordic region; we all learned from Sweden); shops were never closed other than a few personal service businesses, and those also briefly. No one was ever forbidden from leaving home nor told how many hours they could exercise outdoors. Remote work was never required. Nor were Norwegians ever forbidden from travelling abroad or freely returning home. There was never any supervised quarantine after entering the country from abroad; in fact quarantine was voluntary like in Finland.

Notice the "discourage" and "encourage"? Most of the measures were voluntary.

Don't be confused about this. Chalk and cheese.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

No, the restrictions in Norway were not even close to those in Melbourne. Chalk and cheese. There was no "lockdown", ever, in Norway, defined as stay at home orders and mass closing of businesses.


Schools were closed only briefly (as elsewhere in the Nordic region; we all learned from Sweden); shops were never closed other than a few personal service businesses, and those also briefly. No one was ever forbidden from leaving home nor told how many hours they could exercise outdoors. Remote work was never required. Nor were Norwegians ever forbidden from travelling abroad or freely returning home.



Notice the "discourage" and "encourage"? Most of the measures were voluntary.



Don't be confused about this.

Most of the measures in NSW were/are voluntary.
In Melbourne at present this is a section of the health orders -- there are plenty of other ifs buts and maybes


'5 Direction — staying at home other than in specified circumstances
Requirement to stay at home
(1) During the stay at home period:
(a) an ordinary resident of the Restricted Area; or
(b) a temporary resident of the Restricted Area,
must not leave the premises where they are residing in the Restricted Area,
other (c) (d) (e) (f) (g) (h) (i)
than for one or more of the reasons specified in:
clause 6 (necessary goods or services);
clause 7 (care or other compassionate reasons);
clause 7A (care or compassionate reasons: child minding); clause 8 (work or education);
clause 9 (exercise or social interaction); clause 10 (other specified reasons); clause 10A (SARS-CoV-2 vaccination).'

Hardly a 'lockdown' - more just trying to stop the masses aimlessly wandering around. I don't know why people feel the need to use such emotive language. Sells Mr Murdock's newspapers I guess.

[Apollo19.5]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

2 million cases of side effects out of 6 billion doses?



Even if that's true, that's one in 3000. No other drug has had such a rate of side effects? You have a cite for that?

I had a sore arm for a day with the first jab and nothing the second. Still a side effect I guess.