On-Board COVID Testing for Long Passages

[Anders]

Originally Posted by pcmm

Most of us Canadians that got AZ only got it for the first shot, then our govt decided we should not get it for the second shot, resulting in most of us that got AZ for the first shot have an mRNA vaccine for the second shot. Which most countries have not recognized as “fully vaccinated”

Lots of EU residents also had AZ first and then Pfizer when AZ became unpopular. EU does recommend that EU countries allowes people in with mixed vaccination but it's up to each country to make the decision. I would check again.
UK changed the rules a few days ago and now allows mixed vaccinations.

[Nicholson58]

Some on line information and from my brother, front line doc in Marquette, Michigan, says mixing is better. We have Pfizer double shot. We will do Moderna for a booster.

[endlesspursuit]

The problem is even vacced people can contact c-19 and pass it on. Often without even realizing they are sick. Hence testing everyone. They don't even address those that have recovered from it and have natural immunity. Of the dozens of people I know that have had it and recovered no one has been re-infected. And we all live in Florida.

[billgewater]

My understanding is that although you may have a double dose vaccination, you can still be a carrier of Covid - possibly dependent on how long ago you got your last jab. So expecting a test on arrival with a few days quarantine after the test seems reasonable. Also, some arrival places just may be exercising a level of caution depending on the local services and economics.
Really, being prepared by getting documented information would seem to be the obvious thing to do.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

Some on line information and from my brother, front line doc in Marquette, Michigan, says mixing is better. We have Pfizer double shot. We will do Moderna for a booster.

There have been a number of studies of mix and match vaccines. Most are between different types of vaccines, ie mRna and non-mRna.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01805-2

A slew of studies suggests that mixing vaccines provokes potent immune responses, but scientists still want answers on real-world efficacy and rare side effects.

[Gingersnap]

Have you seen noonsite for info on covid instructions for any country you select?

https://www.noonsite.com/news/novel-...try-worldwide/

[capn_billl]

Just checked into Dominican Republic. You have to fill out an online questionnaire with vaccination status, and health symptoms list. I got a pcr test before leaving US but no one asked for it. Online questionnaire resulted in a printable bar code used in immigration. The Allume home test I referred to was recalled, so I'm just going to have to find a lab.

[Nicholson58]

No Caribbean islands allow self test. Sounds like a good idea but: they don’t trust you AND they get no income.

[CyKlop]

It seems to me that there are a few distinct cases:


1. PCR test required
Unless you have a gene sequencing laboratory aboard ship, you're not going to do this one at sea. Admittedly, the 5-day or 3-day expiration clause makes this difficult.


2. Blood serum antigen test.
This also requires a laboratory to process, so you'd need a very well equipped yacht, also out of the question for even the possibilty of you self-certifying.


3. Antigen test, laboratory
See 1 & 2


4. Antigen test, home version
This is the only one that you might be able to perform on board. Let's take a look at it:


For a country to accept this from you (acting as medical officer for the yacht, even though unlicensed and potentially barely know how to put on a band-aid) they have to accept that:


a) You actually performed the test at sea and didn't just pencil-whip it
b) You tested each individual aboard
c) You took proper samples
d) You processed the samples in accordance with the directions, properly and thoroughly.



Now... considering many of the yahoos that we see in yachts, and considering the potentially fatal consequences to their population, do you see them accepting all of those risks? Ok, YOU might be safe doing that, but what about the yacht next to you... and the one next to them... etc.


I doubt that we'll see any country accepting self-certified results from small foreign yachts any time soon.


Further, as these give results in as little as an hour, is it really so much to ask that you are quarantined on your boat for an hour or so more than just handing in your paperwork? Spend the hour doing boat cleanup chores, napping, eating, playing cards, etc.

[ixnax]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

Some on line information and from my brother, front line doc in Marquette, Michigan, says mixing is better. We have Pfizer double shot. We will do Moderna for a booster.

We received the two Pfizer shots and chose Pfizer for the booster at 5 months based on compelling data out of Israel and the fact that we tolerated the initial Pfizer shots so well. Effectively, the Isrealis executed a large scale study over descending age ranges that demonstrated both the safety and efficacy of a third Pfizer shot. They are also, of course, keeping a close eye on both. Consequently it seems reasonable that after another six months of information gathering, and another variant perhaps, they'll be providing more real world information gathered on a large scale. By then there might be better information on mixing shots, a rejiggered Pfizer dose, noted defects in the Moderna shot or who knows? Personally I fear none of the vaccines and expect the shots to be a regular, and quite possibly a twice yearly, routine.

[Auspicious]

I've been to Bermuda four times, PR three times, USVI once, BVI once, Bahamas three times. PR and USVI while US territories have their own rules.

I've seen the rules applied as five days (or whatever) before departure vice arrival. The written rules are catching up with practice.

Vaccinations are necessary but not sufficient as far as I'm concerned and lots of countries seem to agree with me. Not a panacea. Lots of breakthrough infections (three members of my family who went back to "normal life" after vaccination have suffered two breakthroughs each).

Rapid antigen tests have a high false negative rate to my risk threshold.

I have a written COVID policy for my crews. Everyone gets a PCR test before departure with copies of results to me and to my shore support person (my sister-in-law). Vaccinated candidates get preference for joining the crew.

My second trip to Bermuda was an emergency stop on a trip from Annapolis to PR due to a rigging failure. I messaged my sister-in-law and she filled out all the forms for Bermuda with all the PCR tests and got us approved. I called Bermuda Radio (love those guys - story to follow) on HF/SSB when I got the message from my SIL and they confirmed we were okay to enter. Bermuda is setting an example for how government should work. Department of Health, HM Customs, and Bermuda Radio all sharing data and lined up to do their part. Accepted our PCR tests from the US, swabbed us again on entry, swabbed us again at day 4, ... all in accordance with their protocol. All paid for by the application fee. All easy. Colored wrist bands based on the tests for what your access is. The little grocery in St. George's has Betty Crocker Double Chocolate Brownie Mix. Three boxes is about right for two foil 8x8 tins. Emailed ALLCON and left them at Customs for them, Health, and Radio. Darn if they didn't record that somewhere as the next trip in, C&I asked if there would be brownies this trip! *grin*

Bermuda Radio operates from the hill over St. George's. It's a long walk up the hill but definitely worth the visit once they open up to visitors again. You have to make an appointment. The have a long range radar there and another over at Dockyards that are integrated on a single display. There is a data feed that goes to the Met Office. Email, VHF, and HF/SSB all go there. Relatively small crew for 24/7 operations. For those who haven't been Bermuda Radio is also the maritime version of air traffic control for internal waters (basically inside the reefs). Even if you aren't a radio guy like me it is worth a visit when allowed.

We should all bear in mind that islands have no surge capacity for their medical systems. Evacuation is an issue for highly contagious diseases. It would be irresponsible for them not to operate with an abundance of caution.

Vaxx + mask + distance + curbside + stay on your boat. Learn to cook. Respect local regulations and don't whine about it.

[DIJ]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

In several recent threads, we've discussed the knotty problem of how you comply with requirements to present fresh COVID tests upon entry into a country, when you've been at sea longer than the length of the window, making it fundamentally impossible to comply.


In Europe, the authorities of several countries have been known to allow tests to be taken on arrival, showing understanding for the problem. An example of someone being denied this option in Ireland however makes one think if there isn't a better way.


I had the idea that as the master of an ocean going vessel, and therefore responsible for medicine on board in the absence of a ship's doctor, why am I not authorized to perform a test on a crewman myself, and certify the results with a document bearing the ship's stamp?


Antigen tests are available over the counter in pharmacies all over Europe.


This may not be relevant to everyone as most countries now allow a vaccination certificate instead of a fresh test. I will be crossing the Atlantic and cruising the Caribbean this winter, and I will not have any unvaxxed people on board. But not everywhere. The UK for example requires everyone to be tested whether vaxxed or not.



So this thread is so that we an explore this option together and pool our knowledge.


I will start with St. Lucia, presumably our first destination after our crossing.


And what do you know! St. Lucia is one of those countries who require advance tests even from vaccinated travellers The window is 5 days.



Furthermore, they don't accept antigen tests -- only PCR.


And the fatal blow is -- the test must be performed by a "commercial laboratory"


"Are NHS tests acceptable?
No, NHS PCR tests are not acceptable for travel to Saint Lucia. You must secure a PCR test result from a commercial laboratory and upload the results to your travel authorisation application. PCR tests for travel are now widely available in the UK."

https://www.stlucia.org/en/covid-19/


So looks like St. Lucia is no go for Atlantic-crossers.


Next stage however will be to call them and ask whether they have a special policy for this case. I will do so and post. Next I'll check Antigua and a few other possible destinations.

UK quoted in your message but from today (4th Oct) UK has removed the need for a pre-travel PCR if vaccinated.

However a PCR test is not something you can do at home and so also not onboard, so that’s no solution to entering places that do require a neg PCR pre-entry test result.

The usual way that an absence of such a test is managed, if entry to a country is required, is to impose a strict quarantine of the 10 day variety.

Good to hear that some countries are allowing tests on arrival - which are they?

[Buzzman]

The issue of "recent tests" is essentially an acknowledgement by that health authority that they are well aware that double-vaxxed people can still be infected, asymptomatic, and thus 'spreaders' of the virus.

ONLY a recent test can disprove this.

It's essentially an insurance policy for them.

The only other possible "insurance" is 14 day quarantine. And a PCR test every 3-5 days during the quarantine period.

Rapid antigen tests are simply not reliable enough as a 'one off' test. They are most accurate when used daily, as then a discrepancy is more noticeable, and likely more reliable.

Been too many false positives with Rapid Antigen Tests.

Why all 'authorities' use the PCR test.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by CyKlop

. . .

4. Antigen test, home version
This is the only one that you might be able to perform on board. Let's take a look at it:

For a country to accept this from you (acting as medical officer for the yacht, even though unlicensed and potentially barely know how to put on a band-aid) they have to accept that:

a) You actually performed the test at sea and didn't just pencil-whip it
b) You tested each individual aboard
c) You took proper samples
d) You processed the samples in accordance with the directions, properly and thoroughly.

Now... considering many of the yahoos that we see in yachts, and considering the potentially fatal consequences to their population, do you see them accepting all of those risks? Ok, YOU might be safe doing that, but what about the yacht next to you... and the one next to them... etc.

I doubt that we'll see any country accepting self-certified results from small foreign yachts any time soon.

Well, all of this applies just as well to the corner clinic on a dirt street in East Bumfork in the next island. There is no inherent legal reason why a test performed by a vessel's medical officer must necessarily be less acceptable than some other.



In any case, I think it's useless to speculate -- either they will accept or won't accept -- it's an empirical question, and we lack information.

Originally Posted by CyKlop

. . . Further, as these give results in as little as an hour, is it really so much to ask that you are quarantined on your boat for an hour or so more than just handing in your paperwork? Spend the hour doing boat cleanup chores, napping, eating, playing cards, etc.

Here I totally agree with you.


The problem is a really stupid bureaucratic one - a frequently imposed rule (you are required to ARRIVE with a fresh test) which is impossible to fulfill for those on long passages.


There are two good solutions:


1. Allow the test to have been taken within the same time window before EMBARKING, rather than before arrival. At sea you can't be exposed to new people, so this perfectly fulfills the intention of the rule. Furthermore, it's even better because you have been in isolation for a long time.


2. Test on arrival.


We don't have such rules because there are so few of us doing this, that it's not worth the intention of the rule-makers.



In reality we see that many, perhaps most authorities are flexible and understanding and come up with some reasonable ad hoc approach. That seems to be almost universal in Europe for example.



But sometimes not, hence the whole question.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

... We should all bear in mind that islands have no surge capacity for their medical systems. Evacuation is an issue for highly contagious diseases. It would be irresponsible for them not to operate with an abundance of caution.

Vaxx + mask + distance + curbside + stay on your boat. Learn to cook. Respect local regulations and don't whine about it.

Thanks, for your well-informed, and responsible reporting.