Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 02-04-2020, 10:00   #91
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Canada
Boat: C&C27-3
Posts: 218
Re: Maryland Bans Recreational Boating for the Duration

Time to pull the thread on this thread!!!
__________________

wannacat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2020, 10:07   #92
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,243
Re: Maryland Bans Recreational Boating for the Duration

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmyDaveNY View Post
Sweden is open for business, including their bars, clubs, and restaurants. Interestingly, they have a much lower rate of infection and deaths than their neighbours Finland, Denmark, and Norway.


Essentially, each person needs to decide for themselves how much precaution they need to take for them and their families. Not much difference than throughout history.
Sweden's daily rate of infection is rising considerably; the death rate naturally lags the infection rate [e.g., approximately 10 to 20 days] as it takes time for the disease to either be resolved or to evolve to progress to a death outcome. The death rate is rising but will take a harsh upward turn soon as the rapidly growing number of infected fail to recover. I suspect that things will get considerably worse before it gets better in Sweden similar to how things have progressed elsewhere. The virus knows no border.

As to how each person should respond, epidemiologist typically recommend a very simple mindset and approach during an epidemic and that is each and everyone should consider themselves to be the infected person / the vector and should avoid any and all non-essential contact with everyone else. You should consider yourself to be Typhoid Mary or Corona Chuck and mitigate the potential that you could cause the spread of a disease onto someone else. The social contract is about safeguarding others. When one takes that simple and realistic approach then you also provide safeguards to self. Do not be cavalier or self-centered.

Essential - adjective
1. absolutely necessary; extremely important.

Non-essential - everything that is not absolutely necessary.

The graphical data depicted below is for April 1.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	sweden41.PNG
Views:	38
Size:	27.1 KB
ID:	211868   Click image for larger version

Name:	swedendeaths41.PNG
Views:	44
Size:	30.6 KB
ID:	211869  

__________________

Montanan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2020, 10:07   #93
Senior Cruiser
 
hpeer's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Between Caribbean and Canada
Boat: Murray 33-Chouette & Pape Steelmaid-44-Safara-both steel cutters
Posts: 6,141
Re: Maryland Bans Recreational Boating for the Duration

Quote:
Originally Posted by garyfdl View Post
So, given that what is occurring here in the US does not effect or apply to you, what then was the point of your original post, just to prove you're a troll?
The point is that in the event I’m forced back into the USA I should be allowed to live in my home.
hpeer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2020, 10:12   #94
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Melbourne, FL
Boat: Manta 40
Posts: 40
Re: Maryland Bans Recreational Boating for the Duration

This is an overt power grab by your crazy NE liberal democrats.


There is no reason why a person could not take his or her sailboat out on the Chesapeake but somehow CHILDCARE and DOG GROOMING facilities are exempt.


This is totally illogical and stupid on its face.


When therapies like Hydrochloroquin (sp?) and plasma transfusions finally get out into the public and knock this thing down and we come out of this with many deaths but not NEARLY the 250 K they are scaring us with, will we be able to fire the incompetent politicians that have made one bad emotional decision after another?!


They have not shut down boating in FL. but we have our own sets of absolutely stupid and unsupportable closures.


Good Luck -- Move out of MD.
Sunsetter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2020, 10:13   #95
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Cape Town South Africa
Boat: Montevideo 43
Posts: 84
Re: Maryland Bans Recreational Boating for the Duration

Not recreational marine. Only commercial marine can move about.
Jannie Radiance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2020, 10:27   #96
Registered User
 
garyfdl's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Fond du Lac WI
Posts: 93
Re: Maryland Bans Recreational Boating for the Duration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dsanduril View Post
Actually, I do understand the intent of "stay-at-home". The intent is to reduce the risk that I will a) transmit the Covid-19 virus to others outside my immediate living arrangement if I have it and am infectious, or b) receive the virus from others outside my immediate living arrangement.

There is absolutely no reason I can't meet the intent while being outside my home. And going sailing on my own boat by myself or with my immediate living arrangement members is lower risk than the allowed activities of shopping, etc. And certainly lower risk than the exceptions in the stay-at-home orders.
It's not all about you...
garyfdl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2020, 10:28   #97
Registered User
 
garyfdl's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Fond du Lac WI
Posts: 93
Re: Maryland Bans Recreational Boating for the Duration

Quote:
Originally Posted by s/v Jedi View Post
I suggest you stop posting in this thread, you seem out of control, trying to force your pov on others without recognizing it is futile.
Duly noted.
garyfdl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2020, 10:29   #98
Registered User
 
Dsanduril's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Petersburg, AK
Boat: Outremer 50S
Posts: 3,151
Re: Maryland Bans Recreational Boating for the Duration

Quote:
Originally Posted by garyfdl View Post
It's not all about you...
Agree 100%. I more question the ludicrous nature of exceptions in the official orders than the intent.
Dsanduril is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2020, 10:53   #99
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,243
Re: Maryland Bans Recreational Boating for the Duration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunsetter View Post

They have not shut down boating in FL. but we have our own sets of absolutely stupid and unsupportable closures.


Good Luck -- Move out of MD.
Moving out of Maryland would be a violation of intrastate travel restrictions being limited to essential travel within Maryland.

Recreational boating has become very much restricted in Florida.

Florida's Governor has overlaid a Statewide Stay Safe at Home order which refers to Miami-Dade County's emergency orders in part. Miami-Dade's orders have been amended repeatedly so definitely not the best example of proper executive authority orders. It would have been a simple matter to just write a clean slate and comprehensive order so one could find the ordinance in one place. DeSantis has kind made a muddle mess, not up to the clarity and decisiveness of say, Cuomo's or Newsome's, or Bullock's Statewide orders.

Local jurisdictions can implement more restrictive orders than those that the Governor has imposed and there are many such orders in place, so one needs to refer to multiple sets of orders and determine which is the most restrictive.

Relevant snipets of the Miami-Dade order as it pertains to beaches, boat ramps, marinas, boating etc. which is now the Statewide order for Florida are attached below.



The state references Miami-Dade Countyís boating rules, which have evolved in recent days to shut down marinas and boat launches except for people with commercial saltwater licenses, for fishing purposes only, or law enforcement patrols and rescues. Liveaboards can also have access, or people taking their boats out of the water for maintenance.

http://https://www.miamidade.gov/inf...mendment-3.pdf
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	miamidade1.PNG
Views:	42
Size:	104.2 KB
ID:	211871   Click image for larger version

Name:	miamidade2.PNG
Views:	41
Size:	167.8 KB
ID:	211872  

Montanan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2020, 10:55   #100
Registered User
 
garyfdl's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Fond du Lac WI
Posts: 93
Re: Maryland Bans Recreational Boating for the Duration

Quote:
Originally Posted by hpeer View Post
The point is that in the event Iím forced back into the USA I should be allowed to live in my home.
I don't believe anyone has said you can't live on your boat. Relocating said boat (during a world-wide pandemic) is another issue. You do not have the right to go anywhere you choose, like before.

That was a risk you took, (knowingly or not) when you decided to travel/live outside the US.

There are thousands outside the country, in the same (or worse) situation as you. As we 'speak' there are hundreds (thousands?) aboard cruise ships that are being refused docking in the US. Why should you be any different?
garyfdl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2020, 10:57   #101
Registered User
 
garyfdl's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Fond du Lac WI
Posts: 93
Re: Maryland Bans Recreational Boating for the Duration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dsanduril View Post
Agree 100%. I more question the ludicrous nature of exceptions in the official orders than the intent.
The "ludicrous nature of exceptions" are all that are preventing a complete economic implosion and all out panic.
garyfdl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2020, 11:03   #102
Registered User
 
garyfdl's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Fond du Lac WI
Posts: 93
Re: Maryland Bans Recreational Boating for the Duration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montanan View Post
Sweden's daily rate of infection is rising considerably; the death rate naturally lags the infection rate [e.g., approximately 10 to 20 days] as it takes time for the disease to either be resolved or to evolve to progress to a death outcome. The death rate is rising but will take a harsh upward turn soon as the rapidly growing number of infected fail to recover. I suspect that things will get considerably worse before it gets better in Sweden similar to how things have progressed elsewhere. The virus knows no border.

As to how each person should respond, epidemiologist typically recommend a very simple mindset and approach during an epidemic and that is each and everyone should consider themselves to be the infected person / the vector and should avoid any and all non-essential contact with everyone else. You should consider yourself to be Typhoid Mary or Corona Chuck and mitigate the potential that you could cause the spread of a disease onto someone else. The social contract is about safeguarding others. When one takes that simple and realistic approach then you also provide safeguards to self. Do not be cavalier or self-centered.

Essential - adjective
1. absolutely necessary; extremely important.

Non-essential - everything that is not absolutely necessary.

The graphical data depicted below is for April 1.

There should be a 'like' button.

Yours is about the only voice of fact, and logic to be found in this thread (the rest of us are raving lunatics with nothing else to do because we're stuck in our 'homes' )
garyfdl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2020, 11:27   #103
Registered User
 
Dsanduril's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Petersburg, AK
Boat: Outremer 50S
Posts: 3,151
Re: Maryland Bans Recreational Boating for the Duration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montanan View Post
The social contract is about safeguarding others. ....
The social contract isn't as simple as a single disease. The whole presumption that fewer immediate deaths from Covid 19 best serves the social contract should be considered. It is a presumption at this point. We've gotten so singularly focused on Covid that we aren't even willing to discuss a realistic cost-benefit that weighs the entire social contract. Anyone who suggests anything along these lines (raising my own head here) is immediately flamed and put down as a non-compassionate, selfish idiot (see, for instance, news stories on Ron Johnson's thoughts).

Any review has to look at the probabilities (because that's all we have) that the same number of people will die of Covid anyway (just spread out), the differential in mortality that isolation orders might give, the probability that an effective vaccine can be developed, tested, manufactured, distributed, and dispensed during the isolation period (same for an effective treatment), the cost of additional deaths to society in general balanced against societal problems (including "excess" mortality) that might be incurred during an extended economic downturn caused (potentially) by extended isolation.

Because most are selfish about themselves and their nana, few are willing to put a value on nana's life, but from a social contract/societal perspective there is a value and the media and these forums are generally unwilling to discuss that in a realistic manner.
Dsanduril is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2020, 11:45   #104
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,243
Re: Maryland Bans Recreational Boating for the Duration

Quote:
Originally Posted by garyfdl View Post
There should be a 'like' button.

Yours is about the only voice of fact, and logic to be found in this thread (the rest of us are raving lunatics with nothing else to do because we're stuck in our 'homes' )
Been stuck in home for quite some time now. Governor Bullock imposed a Statewide Stay At Home order seven minutes before the first documented case of death from COVID-19 in the Last Best Place.

My business has become rather constrained of late, my cofounder of the company returned from 3 weeks in China completing business activities just before their National New Year's holiday began in mid-January. The holiday closes most Chinese business for 10 to 20 days, but that holiday then evolved into a nationwide COVID-19 closure and some of our Chinese partners and clients are just now returning to their offices and factories. We knew that there was a serious virus because several of our partners told us that they would not be reopening for business like usual, that was about January 20th. The lockdown of Wuhan occured around January 21 or 22.
No surprise that this bug was going to be a massive problem from the get go. China moved to lockdown mode within about 10 days of confirming that a novel virus was present. The world and its leaders should have taken immediate note. Our Taiwanese client just shut down their operations on Monday as COVID-19 is spreading on that part of China. We of course will not be traveling, instead are just doing lots of video conferences including with presentation to private equity fund managers that are interested in investing in yet another spin off / start up venture for developing and commercializing a set of technologies. Been dealing with all the challenges of logistics and supply chain restrictions with kind of 24 hour clock because it requires wrangling personnel in Europe, China and the USA, timezoned out. Woke up to a call around 3:00 AM this morning.

I worked at a Biotechnology company for seven years in the S.F. Bay Area, a portion of the company's R&D involved vaccines for viruses, albeit for animal viruses. One was for Rinderpest which is the zoonotic virus from which measles developed in humans. Rinderpest is extremely contagious and lethal; it wipes out an entire herd within about 14 to 20 days. The measles virus continues to share in the extreme contagiousness and lethality of its parent zoonotic virus, especially when measles impacts a naive population [naive being a group without immunity].

Rinderpest is one of just two viruses that have been eliminated from the world, the first was Small Pox. Rinderpest was one of the plagues of Egypt written in Scripture. It is thankfully no longer, I believe the last of the virus that was stored in national labs has been destroyed. Glad to see Rinderpest done and gone.

Measles [which derived from Rinderpest transcending into humans around 700 AD and becamig endemic in humans around 1,000 AD] regularly killed 2 to 4 million persons per year worldwide [with many more being inflicted with adverse consequences, blindness, sterility, etc.] and measles can to this day become a severe outbreak whenever a population fails to become vaccinated. [I tend to become rather angry when I have a discussion with any anti-vaxer.] I know live on the Flathead Nation here in Montana, we have had only a few confirmed cases but there has been very few tests accomplished in Montana because of a lack of testing supplies and equipment being provided by the CDC. Our Governor Steve Bullock mentioned the issue of lacking adequacy of testing supplies and constraints on managing the outbreak, when Dr. Anthony Fauci asked the nation's Governors in a conference call a couple of days ago about whether testing and contact tracing & isolation protocols were being implemented in Montana. Governor Bullock stated the challenge being that testing / contact tracing and isolation of exposed persons was very limited because very few tests could be administered, the State only has about one day's supply of tests [500] on any given day. The POTUS's response, was his typical denial / deflect, to the effect: "Well I haven't heard there being any issues regarding testing for weeks." Arghh, banghead. Nothing political about that, just the harsh, true reality which audio recording of the Governor's conference with the White House COVID-19 Response Task Force and the POTUS being public national news.

Hoping y'all farewell through this adversity and the challenges that it invokes. There will be some forum members that will we will lose.

Discussions with my Italian clients becomes very sobering and emotional as it has hit them close and personal. It will also impact us in turn.
Montanan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2020, 11:52   #105
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Melbourne, FL
Boat: Manta 40
Posts: 40
Re: Maryland Bans Recreational Boating for the Duration

Thank you but even though non-Floridians don't understand this -- Miami-Dade is hardly all of Florida.


Brevard county (space coast) has beaches open but parking closed and NO restrictions on recreational boating or boat ramps -- at least up till today. Not sure about later or tomorrow as our politicians go nuts to one up one another in their closure orders.
__________________

Sunsetter is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
boat, boating, Maryland

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Maryland to Key West to Maryland TBW Navigation 18 22-01-2020 07:33
Visa Duration / Bahamas Sunspot Baby Atlantic & the Caribbean 8 12-11-2011 15:26
Recreational Boating Act of 2007 S/V Illusion Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 10 30-11-2007 05:49

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 14:09.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.