Covid vaccination status for CF members

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

....

I also dont understand the instinct some seem to have against Pharmacological companies making a significant profit from having developed drugs and vaccines that save millions of lives and may save trillions of dollars by shortening the lifespan of this virus. They seem to not understand or are willfully ignoring the obvious fact that if the pharma companies didnt see the potential to make big $$$, they wouldnt invest in the resources and expense that it took to bring these ‘miracle drugs’ into being and we’d all be forced to live with the consequences.

Of course these companies should earn a reasonable profit. They manage to sell their wares to the entire world for a nice profit, then market the exact same drug for literally 10 times more in the US.
And they are able to do this because they are granted a 20 year monopoly by the US government - would you like to get the government out of this and remove the monopoly? Or is that a part of government intervention you like?

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

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It costs real money to hire the brightest researchers and equip them with the best labs/equipment available, and for every breakthrough these brilliant scientists come up with, they spend years and many millions of dollars pursuing seemingly promising drugs that never get approved. Does anyone REALLY want government workers and politicians any more involved than they already are in the decision process regarding which diseases or health conditions that scarce resources should be allocated towards fighting?

Count me in. A pharma company has it's shareholders to please and it does this by maximizing profit. Maximizing profit does not maximize the benefit to society. Free market capitalism is not the answer to all questions.

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

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Often the term “obscene profits” is used when big pharma is discussed, but if they didnt exist and werent incentivized by the hope of making those obscene profits, we’d be witness to the actual obscenity of witnessing countless more premature deaths due to diseases that we all now take for granted are no longer a threat to us.

Yet they actively market their products for far less worldwide than in the US, so the incentive is still there at a much more modest markup.

[Midnight Son]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Of course these companies should earn a reasonable profit. They manage to sell their wares to the entire world for a nice profit, then market the exact same drug for literally 10 times more in the US.
And they are able to do this because they are granted a 20 year monopoly by the US government - would you like to get the government out of this and remove the monopoly? Or is that a part of government intervention you like?


Count me in. A pharma company has it's shareholders to please and it does this by maximizing profit. Maximizing profit does not maximize the benefit to society. Free market capitalism is not the answer to all questions.


Yet they actively market their products for far less worldwide than in the US, so the incentive is still there at a much more modest markup.

You have summed up my thoughts on this issue perfectly.
Best wishes

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Of course these companies should earn a reasonable profit. They manage to sell their wares to the entire world for a nice profit, then market the exact same drug for literally 10 times more in the US.

No, they sell to the U.S. first at the full price, then when the R&D is amortized they sell cheaper in poorer countries. Entirely different thing. And those profits are what built the capacities which are now being used to save the world.

Here is what the EU is paying for the various vaccines, per dose:

• Oxford/AstraZeneca: €1.78 (£1.61).
• Johnson & Johnson: $8.50 (£6.30).
• Sanofi/GSK: €7.56.
• Pfizer/BioNTech: €12.
• CureVac: €10.
• Moderna: $18.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ine-price-list

The U.S. is paying $4 for the AZ but $15 for Moderna and $1.95 for Pfizer.

This is cheaper than flu shots and, altogether, chicken feed. $3.80 for two shots of Pfizer is less than a coffee at Starbucks -- the best $3.80 anyone spent on you in your life. And you begrudge them some profit on that?




Certainly there is room to criticize the pricing models and market practices of the big pharma companies, but not here.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

No, they sell to the U.S. first at the full price, then when the R&D is amortized they sell cheaper in poorer countries. Entirely different thing. And those profits are what built the capacities which are now being used to save the world.

Here is what the EU is paying for the various vaccines, per dose:

• Oxford/AstraZeneca: €1.78 (£1.61).
• Johnson & Johnson: $8.50 (£6.30).
• Sanofi/GSK: €7.56.
• Pfizer/BioNTech: €12.
• CureVac: €10.
• Moderna: $18.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ine-price-list

The U.S. is paying $4 for the AZ but $15 for Moderna and $1.95 for Pfizer.

This is cheaper than flu shots and, altogether, chicken feed. $3.80 for two shots of Pfizer is less than a coffee at Starbucks -- the best $3.80 anyone spent on you in your life. And you begrudge them some profit on that?




Certainly there is room to criticize the pricing models and market practices of the big pharma companies, but not here.

No, they sell worldwide currently at prices that are 1/10 the US price for many drugs. And not to 'poor countries' but to the rest of the world including first world economies. I was not referring to c19 vaccines as that is not where pharma got their reputation that was being so actively defended,

[dannc]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

I think you’re right that getting the vaccine to those in rural, 3rd world countries is a major hurdle that we’ve yet to clear and its a moral imperative as well as in our own self interest to make sure it happens ASAP in order to limit the opportunity for a more deadly, current vaccine resistant variant to develop.
....

Yes. And if the US, EU, AUS, NZ, Japan, etc, have to pay a bit more for the jab to fund the development and distribution of the vaccine to poorer countries, so be it. It is in our best interest and the right thing to do.

Flip side is, will people in these countries take the AZ vaccine? Look at the idiocy in EU about AZ. The Eurocrats have said AZ was safe, no its not, yes it is, so many times, I can't keep count. I saw a poll from France that said only 8% of the population would get the AZ vaccine. Golly Gee, Wally, I wonder why?

Sooo, if you take the AZ vaccine and pass it out in other countries, will people there get the jab? Will there be people saying the vaccine was not good enough for people in the EU, why should we take it? Then there will be a racial spin on this as well. Those are rational questions to ask given what the EU has said and done.

Later,
Dan

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by dannc

Yes. And if the US, EU, AUS, NZ, Japan, etc, have to pay a bit more for the jab to fund the development and distribution of the vaccine to poorer countries, so be it. It is in our best interest and the right thing to do.

There seems to be a misinformation campaign that vaccines won't be made available to poor countries. That is false and has never been put forth or supported by any country or administration. Cost is not an issue.

The only issue we have currently is there is a limited supply so the wealthy countries that funded the development are vaccinating their populations first. As soon as that's done, you will see them roll out to other countries. I have no doubt that even pariahs like N. Korea will be offered vaccines once supplies catch up.

PS: Good news: 7 day averages... US 2.83mil/day...EU1.63mil/day...world 15.3mil/day. All showing substantial increases over the past week.

[NPCampbell]

Originally Posted by Copacabana

I think a solution is to release the patents so countries can make vaccines under license, paying a fee to the drug companies. I think there is no time to lose.

The time is already lost. The limiting factor on most new high tech is the ability to manufacture the item, not the IP behind the item. Case in point, many of Moderna's patents can be seized by the US government due to the Bayh-Dole Act's march-in provisions (but they won't be).

However, it doesn't matter ... there are very few governments or companies that could start making mRNA vaccines from scratch now and be able to produce sufficient quantities before the pandemic ends. There are just too many manufacturing hurdles and supply chain issues to resolve.

Additionally, the monetary hurdles are huge as well. Pfizer alone has spent over $2 billion on their vaccine not counting the 5+ years of research. That is 3 times the yearly budget for the entire Canadian Public Health Agency.

[Copacabana]

Originally Posted by NPCampbell

The time is already lost. The limiting factor on most new high tech is the ability to manufacture the item, not the IP behind the item. Case in point, many of Moderna's patents can be seized by the US government due to the Bayh-Dole Act's march-in provisions (but they won't be).

However, it doesn't matter ... there are very few governments or companies that could start making mRNA vaccines from scratch now and be able to produce sufficient quantities before the pandemic ends. There are just too many manufacturing hurdles and supply chain issues to resolve.

Additionally, the monetary hurdles are huge as well. Pfizer alone has spent over $2 billion on their vaccine not counting the 5+ years of research. That is 3 times the yearly budget for the entire Canadian Public Health Agency.

Not all the vaccines use mRNA technology (I think only two). Currently, most of the world's vaccines are made in "developing" countries (China, India, Brazil etc.) that have the infrastructure and expertise to ramp up production.

At any rate, I think by the end of the year we'll have a pretty good global supply, but it's not fast enough in my opinion.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Copacabana

Not all the vaccines use mRNA technology (I think only two). Currently, most of the world's vaccines are made in "developing" countries (China, India, Brazil etc.) that have the infrastructure and expertise to ramp up production.

At any rate, I think by the end of the year we'll have a pretty good global supply, but it's not fast enough in my opinion.

Who are these countries with unused infrastructure?

Everyone is already going all out. There isn't some huge stockpile of unused vaccine production facilities.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Paul L

No, they sell worldwide currently at prices that are 1/10 the US price for many drugs. And not to 'poor countries' but to the rest of the world including first world economies. I was not referring to c19 vaccines as that is not where pharma got their reputation that was being so actively defended,

I said that I don't disagree that there are certain questionable pricing and market practices with big pharma. But that's a different conversation. And maybe not the time for that conversation just at the moment when big pharma is busy saving the world.

[Montanan]

COVID-19 'breakthrough cases' are 'extremely unlikely,' experts say

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/covi...153902708.html

More than 100 people in Washington state have contracted COVID-19 after being fully vaccinated against the virus, according to officials from the Washington State Department of Health. Known as "breakthrough cases," these illnesses are expected with any type of vaccine, officials said. The department reported in a press release on Tuesday that, out of 1 million fully vaccinated people in Washington, there is evidence of 102 breakthrough cases in 18 counties since Feb. 1 — or just 0.01 percent of vaccinated people in the state.

The majority of the patients with confirmed breakthrough cases had only mild symptoms, if any. However, the department noted, eight people with such cases have been hospitalized. The department is also investigating two potential breakthrough cases in which patients died. Both patients were over 80 years old and had underlying health issues.

"It is important to remember that every vaccine on the market right now prevents severe disease and death in most cases," the state's secretary of health, Dr. Umair A. Shah,

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

There seems to be a misinformation campaign that vaccines won't be made available to poor countries. That is false and has never been put forth or supported by any country or administration. Cost is not an issue.

The only issue we have currently is there is a limited supply so the wealthy countries that funded the development are vaccinating their populations first. As soon as that's done, you will see them roll out to other countries. I have no doubt that even pariahs like N. Korea will be offered vaccines once supplies catch up.

PS: Good news: 7 day averages... US 2.83mil/day...EU1.63mil/day...world 15.3mil/day. All showing substantial increases over the past week.

This is exactly right.


I think there is a huge amount of cooperation and pulling together going on now, notwithstanding the little export ban spats and so forth.


Everyone agrees -- really, there is not a single dissenting voice that I've heard -- that poor countries need to get vaccinated, and the whole world is willing to pitch in and pay to help it happen faster. Vaccine manufacturing is not an issue, money is not an issue. The only issues are a little time and, mostly importantly (why has no one commented on this?) the logistics and distribution capabilities inside poor countries, which at present will not support rapid vaccination of the whole populations of poor countries.



Naturally the countries who funded and developed the vaccine go first -- and they have the most to lose, and they have the distribution and logistics capability to use the vaccines -- so for a bunch of different reasons they go first. The U.S. only needs a few months to get on top of vaccinating its own population, and then there will be a glut of vaccines, which no doubt will be pushed out all over the world, no doubt for free or nearly so, and I hope we will provide a lot of help with logistics and distributions.


Why does no one think about logistics? It was written somewhere that it would take 800 747 cargo planes flying nonstop to distribute all the vaccine which is being made now -- to even get them to world capitals, much less to get them out to where the entire population of the world lives. The logistic task is immense. That we are crushing it in the U.S. is purely down to the high quality of infrastructure in place. It is very different in other countries, even fairly well developed ones, and this cannot be solved in a day or a month and probably not in a year.

[Tillsbury]

Originally Posted by Paul L

No, they sell worldwide currently at prices that are 1/10 the US price for many drugs. And not to 'poor countries' but to the rest of the world including first world economies. I was not referring to c19 vaccines as that is not where pharma got their reputation that was being so actively defended,

Drug companies have to sell at much higher prices in the US to pay for the ludicrous legal challenges and awards that are the norm over there. Same reason all medical costs are so high. The entire system is different in other countries.

[Copacabana]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

This is exactly right.


I think there is a huge amount of cooperation and pulling together going on now, notwithstanding the little export ban spats and so forth.


Everyone agrees -- really, there is not a single dissenting voice that I've heard -- that poor countries need to get vaccinated, and the whole world is willing to pitch in and pay to help it happen faster. Vaccine manufacturing is not an issue, money is not an issue. The only issues are a little time and, mostly importantly (why has no one commented on this?) the logistics and distribution capabilities inside poor countries, which at present will not support rapid vaccination of the whole populations of poor countries.



Naturally the countries who funded and developed the vaccine go first -- and they have the most to lose, and they have the distribution and logistics capability to use the vaccines -- so for a bunch of different reasons they go first. The U.S. only needs a few months to get on top of vaccinating its own population, and then there will be a glut of vaccines, which no doubt will be pushed out all over the world, no doubt for free or nearly so, and I hope we will provide a lot of help with logistics and distributions.


Why does no one think about logistics? It was written somewhere that it would take 800 747 cargo planes flying nonstop to distribute all the vaccine which is being made now -- to even get them to world capitals, much less to get them out to where the entire population of the world lives. The logistic task is immense. That we are crushing it in the U.S. is purely down to the high quality of infrastructure in place. It is very different in other countries, even fairly well developed ones, and this cannot be solved in a day or a month and probably not in a year.

That is a blanket statement that is not always the case. Many developing countries have public health systems that do a good job with vaccine distribution. Brazil can vaccinate 10 million people a day. The problem is we simply don't have the vaccines in hand to do it (thanks to an inept, science-denying president, but that's another issue...). At the moment, there simply are not enough vaccines to go around.

[Montanan]

The ongoing Phase 3 clinical trial of Pfizer/BioNTech's coronavirus vaccine confirms its protection remains high for at least six months after the second dose, the companies said Thursday.

Protection likely lasts even longer than that, vaccine experts say, but they say having data showing good protection six months after people were vaccinated is good news.
The vaccine remains more than 91% effective against disease with any symptoms for six months, the companies said in a statement. And it appeared to be fully effective against the worrying B.1.351 variant of the virus, which is the dominant strain circulating in South Africa and which researchers feared had evolved to evade the protection of vaccines, the companies said.
"The vaccine was 100% effective against severe disease as defined by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), and 95.3% effective against severe COVID-19 as defined by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA)," Pfizer and BioNTech said in a joint statement.

Interesting walk through interview and video of Pfizer's vaccine production and modular, prefabricated formulation suites and how the lipid & mRNA is combined. 60 million doses in cold storage at the location.

Pfizer has doubled it production volume in one month now reaching 13 million doses per week by the middle of this year they expect to be at 25 million doses per week; 100 million per month.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/01/healt...-bn/index.html