Sourcing Winston Lithium batteries, Canada, USA.

[GRIT]

Out of respect for the OP of another thread, who had his thread hijacked, I'll update this thread, as to my progress.

I'm getting ready to order 8, 400ah lithium batteries, by Winston. LiFeYPo4.

1. I've found a reliable source in Prague, GWL Power, which is difficult for shipping outside of the EU. The shipping for my 8 cells will come to about $1000 USD.

2. I've also found a reliable source in California, Voltronics, thanks to Maine Sail. I've called for pricing, and we'll see how that goes.

If the Voltronix purchase works out, you'll know you can source from them, in California. If they don't work out, I'm willing to organize shipping from Prague, for anywhere up to a container load, and we'll all split the costs.

I'm purchasing these batteries within weeks.

This thread is specifically geared toward the purchase of Winston cells. No other brands are being considered, at present.

Cheers.
Paul.

[GRIT]

Voltronix just got back to me. He wrote yesterday, but I didn't find it until today, as it landed in my spam folder.

I'd say getting pricing and shipping information by the next day qualifies as "soon", as he promised.
So far, so good. Anyone want to order some lithium cells?

Here's a copy of the e-mail.



Subject: RE: Winston 400ah cells

Paul,

Sorry for the delay.

Thank you again for contacting VoltronixUSA,Inc.

It was a pleasure speaking with you. We would be very happy to help with your battery needs.

All batteries have a lead time of 5-7 weeks (Ship from China). Come with 3 yrs. Warranty.

8 qty. 400Ah Cells @$572.00 Each - $4,576.00
Intl Shipping $480.00

Total Cost for Batteries - $5,056.00

Bus Bars & Bolt Kit (Copper, tin plated, Braided) $19.99 Each

I will have Shipping cost in a few hrs. (door to door) to:

**********
**********

We have several options available for payment.

You may send a check to:

VoltronixUSA,Inc

5192 Bolsa Ave, Suite 5
Huntington Beach, CA 92649

You may also pay with CC right over the Phone (3.7% fee applies),

Also you may do a bank transfer to our Account.

Please call anytime.

Thank you again very much for your time and allowing me to help.


Voltronix® USA, Inc.
Carlos Ventura
(562)665-4026
Lithium Ion Batteries Electric Vehicles, energy storage, Residential Solar Power Systems, Lithium Battery Management System


Anyone wanting to order at the same time, should pm me before Monday of next week.

Cheers all.
Paul.

[GRIT]

As a price comparison, EVTV sells Calb cells at $241 (including connectors) for a 180ah cell. 16 of these gives 720ah at $3856 US, plus shipping from California. EVTV Motor Verks Store: CALB CA180FI 180Ah LiFePo4 Cell, Lithium Battery Cells, CA180

The price includes shipping and duties into the USA.

Does anyone have experience with CALB cells?

Cheers.
Paul.

[CharlieJ]

CALB cells are my choice. Winston cell quality between cells of the same batch do show variability that shouldn't be there, IMO.

[ronstory]

One more choice for CALB cells, and US stock.

https://www.electriccarpartscompany....d=calb&search=

[GRIT]

Thank you both.

It's always helpful to find a stocking dealer. They're a pretty rare breed.

And, I'd not heard of voltage discrepancies between cells with Winston. It's good to hear other's opinions/knowledge on these things.

Cheers.
Paul.

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by GRIT

Thank you both.

It's always helpful to find a stocking dealer. They're a pretty rare breed.

And, I'd not heard of voltage discrepancies between cells with Winston. It's good to hear other's opinions/knowledge on these things.

Cheers.
Paul.

I've been running CALB CA180s, but for only about a month. So far so good. I would do it again.


But don't think that a stocking dealer has batteries in stock. Some people might jump to that conclusion, silly them. What I found was that nobody stocked batteries. Whatever US stock there was was at CALB US. But nobody could say how long that stock would last, or whether is was already allocated. And none of the dealers were on credit terms with CALB. So you had to pre-pay, then they would place the order with CALB, and CALB wouldn't ship until they had been paid. And hopefully in this process there is still sufficient stock to fill your order. And when CALB US doesn't have stock, the dealers still want you to pre-pay, then they order from CALB and wait until product shows up in CA at CALBs facility. But at that point you are presumably a committed order, but maybe not. It all resembles cash trading at a flee market, not an established supply chain. And the "dealers" all seem to be two guys in a garage doing one-off EV conversions.

[GRIT]

That has also been my impression. And most of the chinese sources want money transfers, no credit cards, nor paypal.

Paul.

[Checkswrecks]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

I've been running CALB CA180s, but for only about a month. So far so good. I would do it again.


But don't think that a stocking dealer has batteries in stock. Some people might jump to that conclusion, silly them. What I found was that nobody stocked batteries. Whatever US stock there was was at CALB US. But nobody could say how long that stock would last, or whether is was already allocated. And none of the dealers were on credit terms with CALB. So you had to pre-pay, then they would place the order with CALB, and CALB wouldn't ship until they had been paid. And hopefully in this process there is still sufficient stock to fill your order. And when CALB US doesn't have stock, the dealers still want you to pre-pay, then they order from CALB and wait until product shows up in CA at CALBs facility. But at that point you are presumably a committed order, but maybe not. It all resembles cash trading at a flee market, not an established supply chain. And the "dealers" all seem to be two guys in a garage doing one-off EV conversions.

Unfortunately, you are pretty accurate with the description of the "dealer network." As far as being built in China, there are thousands of small factories and a few really big ones. What you want is a reputable name, rather than a couple of guys packaging unweathered cells from those little cell makers who have the occasional factory fire.


In any case, the battery management system (BMS) is really where the magic is and your money needs to go to. Anybody can wrap a bunch of cells up, but the BMS is what gives you battery performance, good life, and minimizes degradation. (Not recommending any specific manufacturers since I either have or may need to work with them.)

On the upside, we are pretty far from the early days of Li-ion, which was a bit of selling snake oil in the Wild West. If interested in buying, do some homework and see if the battery or cells you are interested in has some history and a good reputation.

[GRIT]

I didn't have much luck with my Winston Enquiries.

I am now dealing with the "Electric Car Parts Company", for CALB cells.

http://www.electriccarpartscompany.c...ockb_c_12.html


I ordered 16 CALB 180ah cells (the Grey ones). I am presently in Florida, so I delayed paying for my order until Thursday the 14th of this month, so I would be home before the cells arrived. They've shipped today, Monday the 25th.

Cheers all.
Paul.

[GRIT]

That should read: I delayed paying until Thursday the 21st of this month, not the 14th. So, I paid on Thursday, and they shipped on the following Monday.

I was quite pleased with our telephone conversations. As opposed to some of the other Lithium resellers I've gotten quotes from. This company is real, with more than a single employee. Someone answers the phone, all day!

Paul.

[DAS1960]

There are a couple of OEM quality producers and suppliers in North America with inventory and distribution of Lithium based batteries. Trojan a US based manufacturer - Trojan Battery Company - of lead acid batteries has a line of Lithium batteries that they market (they say they produce them but they are actually made by K2 and rebranded). The other is Discover Energy - www.discoverbattery.com - They are also a manufacturer of automotive and deep cycle lead acid batteries and they have an energy storage division that produces large battery backup systems as well as Lithium based batteries for industrial equipment OEM's. I think both are complete batteries with BMS and the required industry safety certifications that allow them to be installed in your boat or home without voiding your insurance coverage.

[GRIT]

I just received my cells. I didn't know what to expect, but the apparent quality is really nice. They just feel and look "right". Like most high end products.

It took about 2 weeks to get them from California. That's including time for customs clearance, 2 days delay due to a large snow storm in my area, and transferal from UPS to a local carrier, and the fact that I ordered on a Thursday.

I metered the cells, and all came out at 3.25 volts. That's at a cell temperature of -14C at the moment. I'll check again when they warm up. My meter only measures to the hundreds of a volt, so I can't get any more accurate than that; until my new meter, and adjustable power supply arrive.

Cheers.
Paul.

[GRIT]

6 months on, and still happy.

Still testing the whole system, and now living aboard, with no shore power, and in Nova Scotia. The solar panels are somewhat hampered with the low angle of the sun, and the batteries are being well used, with two separate espar heaters going 24 hours a day. We're still "building" so there's also lots of power being used with drills, sanders, and vacuum cleaner use. There's also the victron phoenix 3000 using a constant 2 amps, to power the temporary " bar fridge", with freezer, another 6 amps, intermittantly. The solenoids, for high voltage, and low voltage cut off, and REC BMS also use another amp or so.

So about 200 amp hours a day, not counting drills, sanders, and vacuuming. Nor counting lights, stove, chart plotters, and other little things. Still, the solar system manages to juse keep up.

But, so far so good.

Cheers.
Paul.

[AndyEss]

How big is your solar array?