New Battery Technology

[teneicm]

Originally Posted by Adelie

More likely sodium ion, there's another company that has been producing Na-ion batteries for about a year, that supposedly have a specific energy of about 500Whr/kg.

Maybe Na Ion, but this portion of the article seems to imply it's still Li based:

The condensed battery is a semi-solid state battery whose condensed electrolyte creates a micron-level self-adaptive net structure that can adjust the interactive forces created among the chains. This improves the conductive performance of the cells and the efficiency of lithium-ion transporting while boosting the stability of the microstructure. CATL thinks this is a significant achievement, pushing the boundaries of Li-ion battery development.

But do agree that Na batteries should open the door to cheaper availability for all!

[rgleason]

Sodium based batteries are coming soon.
https://www.technologyreview.com/202...eries-for-evs/


"The compact vehicle was fitted with a 25-kilowatt-hour battery made by another Chinese company, HiNa Battery, and a press release claimed the car’s range was up to 250 kilometers (155 miles). In April, China’s largest EV battery maker, CATL, announced it had developed a sodium-ion battery that it planned to release in a vehicle made by automaker Chery."


"Sodium-ion batteries traditionally wear out quickly, and they still have a lower energy density than lithium-ion"


"That means in order to store the same amount of energy, a sodium-based battery will need to be bigger and heavier than the equivalent lithium-based one."


"A somewhat easier market for sodium-ion batteries might be stationary storage installations, like those used to provide backup power for a home or business or on the electrical grid. Some companies, like US-based Natron, are developing the chemistry specifically for stationary applications, where size and weight aren’t as critical as they are in a moving car."


Boats??? - Cheaper, heavier,bulkier and more stationary application.

[Statistical]

Originally Posted by rgleason

Sodium based batteries are coming soon.
https://www.technologyreview.com/202...eries-for-evs/


"The compact vehicle was fitted with a 25-kilowatt-hour battery made by another Chinese company, HiNa Battery, and a press release claimed the car’s range was up to 250 kilometers (155 miles). In April, China’s largest EV battery maker, CATL, announced it had developed a sodium-ion battery that it planned to release in a vehicle made by automaker Chery."


"Sodium-ion batteries traditionally wear out quickly, and they still have a lower energy density than lithium-ion"


"That means in order to store the same amount of energy, a sodium-based battery will need to be bigger and heavier than the equivalent lithium-based one."


"A somewhat easier market for sodium-ion batteries might be stationary storage installations, like those used to provide backup power for a home or business or on the electrical grid. Some companies, like US-based Natron, are developing the chemistry specifically for stationary applications, where size and weight aren’t as critical as they are in a moving car."


Boats??? - Cheaper, heavier,bulkier and more stationary application.

I don't think this will be an LFP killer. LFP is still going to be the premium boat battery. More expensive but lighter, smaller, more flexible in charging, nice long flat discharge curve, and longer lasting. Sodium ion is worse in every aspect except potentially cost.

However with prices potentially the same or even lower than lead acid it could eventually be a lead acid (to include AGM & Gel) killer for house banks. Plain FLA will likely be the survivor for dedicated start battery. In $ per cranking amp (which is all that matters for a dedicated start battery) they are so insanely cheap that despite being 170 year old are hard to beat.

[sailorboy1]

The thing is, hardly any boaters really need a better battery. I currently have $300/100ah drop in LFPs, but would be pretty much just as well with old open cell lead acid golf cart batteries.

[Adelie]

Boats are relatively weight insensitive compared to cars. LFP will take over the EV market because of better specific energy (kWhr/kg) compared to Na-ion and price and longevity compared to other Li-ion chemistries.

Once lifecycle improves some and they become more widely available I expect Na-ion to take over the market for Boats, semi trucks and stationary applications based on big price advantage and being almost as good compared to LFP in terms of longevity and specific energy.

My understanding is Na-ion already has better energy density (kWhr/liter). Not completely sure.

Wait 5yr and you may see the trend. If they pan out we’ll see firm results in 10yr.

[GordMay]

Want to know where batteries are going? Look at their ingredients.
Lithium and other key metals are shaping the future of battery technology.
~ by Casey Crownhart, for MIT Technology Review’s “The Spark”

There’s lots of hot links, to primary sources, in this article ➥ https://www.technologyreview.com/202...=pocket-newtab

[CaptainRivet]

Well i think LTO will be the goto in bosts in the future. Extremely safe and capable of high c-rates with 50years+ lifespan plus works at a wide temperature range. Their only problem is the cell voltage is not that ideal for 12V but fits very well 24V and 48V systems that come up more and more.
Also a LTO bank can replace the old-fashioned starter and house bank setup by just one doing all and to garuntee always starting the BMS managing the bank warns earlier and cuts of the service load earlier to insure min 10AH is in the bank to always start the engine.
Its also the only chemistry you can completely discharge to 0V and recharge (with some losses in cycle life but you have plenty) to add even more to saftey aspects.
This especially in smaller boats but also in larger vessels. Disadvantage is weight but as mentioned before boats not so weight sensitive and you can also get away with a smaller capacity bank as you cannrecharge them.with a high C-rate means perfect for electronic galley where you need twice a day for maybe 15min a very high load, the rest of day 10-20A @ 12V is your average consumption. Yes another 3h where you run watermaker or wasing machine but you do that a peak times where solar actually deliver the power so this doesn't go staright of rhe battery bank in 80% of the cases.

[rgleason]

Solid State Batteries are in our future.
Longer lasting, higher power density, lighter, faster charging.

1. Energy Density 240-300 wh/kg
2. Cycle Life 5000
3. Charge C rate 1-4
4. Discharge C rate 1-4

These characteristics combined with cost reductions compared to lithium-ion will make their use inevitable.

Solid State Battery Characteristics
Best characteristics of available types.
Pre-production verslons shipping to the future customers.
Four companies active - Quantum Scape, Solid Power, Amperis, and SILA Nanotechnolgies
All have a solid battery solution and are testing them now.
BYD Blade 'like solid' uses solid iron, does not catch fire, available today and now in use by multiple automotive manufacturers.

[rgleason]

Then there is the Saltwater Battery, will it be appropriate for boats?
https://undecidedmf.com/why-salt-wat...-of-batteries/


Are These Batteries The Future Of Energy Storage?
By Matt Ferrell and Jon Okun February 14, 2023
https://undecidedmf.com/are-these-ba...nergy-storage/

[rgleason]

"One of the next frontiers of battery tech is sodium-ion batteries, which can cost less, work in more extreme weather, and recharge more quickly. BYD will reportedly start selling cars equipped with them by the end of 2023, and the company has announced a new factory to scale up the production of sodium-ion batteries." MIT Technology

[T1 Terry]

Originally Posted by rgleason

"One of the next frontiers of battery tech is sodium-ion batteries, which can cost less, work in more extreme weather, and recharge more quickly. BYD will reportedly start selling cars equipped with them by the end of 2023, and the company has announced a new factory to scale up the production of sodium-ion batteries." MIT Technology

On another thread, or maybe this one, I posted that I have 15Ah cylindrical cells and 200Ah prismatic cells for testing to arrive .... hopefully, before the end of the mth.
CATL are supplying BYD and Chery motors with the sodium ion cells, but us poor common folk can't get our hands on these 2nd gen cells .... my guess is they have a deal with the car makers regarding field testing to ensure they are safe before letting the great unwashed get their hands on them.

There is big talk about what these cells can do, it will be interesting to see if they meet the claims ....

T1 Terry

[T1 Terry]

It seems I upset a few members here regarding my attack on armchair experts posting knowledge they hadn't actually gained first hand .... this wasn't aimed at anyone on this forum, it was aimed at the huge library of disinformation out there on the WWW and to be aware that what you read there needs to have lateral thinking applied ... like, does it sound like they even know what they are talking about ..... grouping all lithium ion together under one heading is a clear indicator they are just reposting something they heard or read somewhere to make it look like they know about this stuff .... so just be wary of what you read on the topic regarding lithium batteries and now sodium ion batteries, not much of what is posted out there is fact ...

T1 Terry

[rgleason]

Panasonic’s New Powder-Powered Batteries Will Supercharge EVs
A company working with Tesla’s main US battery supplier has silicon-based tech that could soon give electric cars 500-mile ranges and charge refills in just 10 minutes.
https://www.wired.com/story/panasoni..._mpFWtaQ5fXiDY


Global Supply Chains of EV Batteries
https://iea.blob.core.windows.net/as...VBatteries.pdf

BYD’S NEW BLADE BATTERY SET TO REDEFINE EV SAFETY STANDARDS
Today, BYD officially announced the launch of the Blade Battery, a development set to mitigate concerns about battery safety in electric vehicles.
https://en.byd.com/news/byds-new-bla...ety-standards/

CATL Cell-to-pack refers to the direct integration of cells into a battery pack,
https://www.greencarreports.com/news...sla-4680-cells

CATL Sodium - Ion Charge to 80% in 15 minutes.
https://www.greencarreports.com/news...-in-15-minutes

[UFO]

Well I'm saving up for one of these on my next super-yacht


https://www.westinghousenuclear.com/...i-microreactor

[GordMay]

AI makes new material that could dramatically change how batteries work

Microsoft used AI systems [Azure Quantum], to screen more than 32 million battery candidates. From that, they were able to make a new material [the NaxLi3−xYCl6 (0<x<3) series], that was both unknown, and not present in nature, and could transform how batteries work.
Scientists then synthesised the material, and made it into a working prototype, that demonstrated that it really worked in practice, and that it has a potential to be a new way of storing energy [Li- and Na-conducting solid electrolytes].

More about ➥ https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/techn...e8d6ab785&ei=8


[1] “Accelerating computational materials discovery with artificial intelligence and cloud high-performance computing: from large-scale screening to experimental validation” ~ by Chi Chen et al [8 Jan 2024]
Abstract ➥ https://arxiv.org/abs/2401.04070

Full Paper ➥ https://arxiv.org/pdf/2401.04070.pdf



I can see the future, and I know the score of Super Bowl LVII, before it even starts ...
0-0