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05-09-2018, 05:20
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#31
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2017
Boat: Lagoon 400S2
Posts: 3,755
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Re: LFP - Decline in charge acceptance rate with battery age
Quote:
Originally Posted by Albro359
Sounds like BS to me.....100A from solar...seriously ???
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Yes, seriously.
- Victron MPPT SmartSolar controller 150/100
- 5 BenQ PM096B00 panels (each 330Wp, 96 cells, Vmp=54.7V , Imp=6.04A; salt water resistant, 5 years warranty 95% of the nominal output + 25 years extended warranty 87% of the nominal output)
https://www.photovoltaik4all.de/medi...M096B00_DE.pdf
Total solar array power 1650Wp
Makes a nice shade over the aft cockpit of our catamaran.
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05-09-2018, 05:41
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#32
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2017
Boat: Lagoon 400S2
Posts: 3,755
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Re: LFP - Decline in charge acceptance rate with battery age
a screenshot from the UI.. 99.9A charging...
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05-09-2018, 09:28
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#33
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2003
Boat: Dragonfly 1000 trimaran
Posts: 7,165
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Re: LFP - Decline in charge acceptance rate with battery age
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorboy1
See that's an extra on a "benefit" of no usr to me. The most I ever see is -160 amps running the microwave a few minutes and my T105 440AH handles that.
This fast charging thing looks to me to be another rabbit hole because most boat don't have more than 100 amp charging source.
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But you still have the Peukert effect. There's around 15% penalty and taper of the charge toward the end.
I don't, and it needs to be experienced to believe the difference it makes.
Edit:
I should have read forward. CatNewBee said the same thing !
__________________
The question is not, "Who will let me?"
The question is,"Who is going to stop me?"
Ayn Rand
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05-09-2018, 10:08
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#34
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CLOD
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: being planted in Jacksonville Fl
Boat: none
Posts: 20,423
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Re: LFP - Decline in charge acceptance rate with battery age
I don't care if it takes 2-3 hours at absorption to get that last bit into my FLA, I have quiet solar for that. Like I already said, my FLA will take the full charge capability I can supply up 90+% charge. That's enough for me on those days that I am running my generator for charging plus "extras".
Not looking to start a fight. I just don't see the benefit of this "fast" charge except on paper for those that don't make a serious charging capacity upgrade.
__________________
Don't ask a bunch of unknown forum people if it is OK to do something on YOUR boat. It is your boat, do what you want!
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05-09-2018, 10:21
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#35
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: puget sound washington
Boat: 1968 Islander bahama 24 hull 182, 1963 columbia 29 defender. hull # 60
Posts: 12,179
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Re: LFP - Decline in charge acceptance rate with battery age
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorboy1
I don't care if it takes 2-3 hours at absorption to get that last bit into my FLA, I have quiet solar for that. Like I already said, my FLA will take the full charge capability I can supply up 90+% charge. That's enough for me on those days that I am running my generator for charging plus "extras".
Not looking to start a fight. I just don't see the benefit of this "fast" charge except on paper for those that don't make a serious charging capacity upgrade.
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true and it is a case by case decision for each cruiser and install. i will have a holding plate refer and watermaker that couple hours extra solar for my case is fully supporting my refer and or my watermaker after the battery is charged. ymmv
__________________
Non illigitamus carborundum
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05-09-2018, 10:22
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#36
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: puget sound washington
Boat: 1968 Islander bahama 24 hull 182, 1963 columbia 29 defender. hull # 60
Posts: 12,179
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Re: LFP - Decline in charge acceptance rate with battery age
im still waiting on the technical bulliten concerning lfp reduction of acceptance with cycle age.
__________________
Non illigitamus carborundum
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05-09-2018, 11:00
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#37
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,351
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LFP - Decline in charge acceptance rate with battery age
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorboy1
Not looking to start a fight. I just don't see the benefit of this "fast" charge except on paper for those that don't make a serious charging capacity upgrade.
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It is primarily for people with BIG chargers and big generators and who don’t want Solar, or for whatever reason want to cook with electricity, heat water or some other energy intensive thing.
For us little guys with our little banks, who don’t try to run Airconditioning or cook with electricity, a Honda generator and good Solar takes care of us very well.
Yes, I know we both have Diesel built ins, but we could get by with Honda’s.
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05-09-2018, 11:03
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#38
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,351
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Re: LFP - Decline in charge acceptance rate with battery age
This doesn’t answer the declining charge acceptance rate.
It primarily is talking about much smaller batteries, but is written in plain English if you will, so non tech those can easily understand.
It would appear that Lithium ages in a very, very similar manner as lead acid does, and it would be logical that acceptance rate along with capacity would decline with age, probably not enough for any of us to ever notice, cause we are unlikely to be hammering in the charge at high rates anyway.
https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/...ased_batteries
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05-09-2018, 11:35
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#39
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cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2017
Boat: Retired from CF
Posts: 13,317
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Re: LFP - Decline in charge acceptance rate with battery age
No, 3.5Vpc is plenty high already for longevity.
I use 3.45Vpc for low current rates.
There is no rational reason to get closer to the shoulders, you will still be at or within 5% of rated AH capacity.
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05-09-2018, 11:39
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#40
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cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2017
Boat: Retired from CF
Posts: 13,317
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Re: LFP - Decline in charge acceptance rate with battery age
WRT the declining charge acceptance rate.
If it exists it is not relevant.
Ten years and many thousands of cycles later, you're still able to charge at higher that 1C.
Which who does that in the first place?
Let's let this red herring thread die, start another thread to discuss more relevant LFP topics.
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It primarily is talking about much smaller batteries, but is written in plain English if you will, so non tech those can easily understand.
It would appear that Lithium ages in a very, very similar manner as lead acid does, and it would be logical that acceptance rate along with capacity would decline with age, probably not enough for any of us to ever notice, cause we are unlikely to be hammering in the charge at high rates anyway.
https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/...ased_batteries[/QUOTE]
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05-09-2018, 11:40
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#41
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cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2017
Boat: Retired from CF
Posts: 13,317
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Re: LFP - Decline in charge acceptance rate with battery age
I have found many errors and oversimpifications at Battery University.
Useful for noob basic orientation and terminology, but not tech details.
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05-09-2018, 11:43
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#42
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cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2017
Boat: Retired from CF
Posts: 13,317
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Re: LFP - Decline in charge acceptance rate with battery age
Ignore
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05-09-2018, 11:45
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#43
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: puget sound washington
Boat: 1968 Islander bahama 24 hull 182, 1963 columbia 29 defender. hull # 60
Posts: 12,179
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Re: LFP - Decline in charge acceptance rate with battery age
Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct
No, 3.5Vpc is plenty high already for longevity.
I use 3.45Vpc for low current rates.
There is no rational reason to get closer to the shoulders, you will still be at or within 5% of rated AH capacity.
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it appears I mis posted the numbers that is for standard lithium ion not Lfp
Therefore I deleted my post of it
__________________
Non illigitamus carborundum
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05-09-2018, 11:49
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#44
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: puget sound washington
Boat: 1968 Islander bahama 24 hull 182, 1963 columbia 29 defender. hull # 60
Posts: 12,179
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Re: LFP - Decline in charge acceptance rate with battery age
Quote:
Originally Posted by john61ct
WRT the declining charge acceptance rate.
If it exists it is not relevant.
Ten years and many thousands of cycles later, you're still able to charge at higher that 1C.
Which who does that in the first place?
Let's let this red herring thread die, start another thread to discuss more relevant LFP topics.
.
It primarily is talking about much smaller batteries, but is written in plain English if you will, so non tech those can easily understand.
It would appear that Lithium ages in a very, very similar manner as lead acid does, and it would be logical that acceptance rate along with capacity would decline with age, probably not enough for any of us to ever notice, cause we are unlikely to be hammering in the charge at high rates anyway.
https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/...ased_batteries
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[/QUOTE]
the big issue with the paper is it is all over the chemistry spectrum with no continuity so understand that when reading it
__________________
Non illigitamus carborundum
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05-09-2018, 15:30
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#45
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Mannum, Australia
Boat: Houseboat, 60ft.
Posts: 290
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Re: LFP - Decline in charge acceptance rate with battery age
I had LiFePO4 battery bank in my previous houseboat.
Hooked up in 48V nom.
Six monthly 'banging' of each cell in upper limit (to 4.0v) and lower limit (to 2.9v) and they still had the same capacity. At that time I also removed, polished & re-alminoxed each & every connecting link.
(Tested and recorded)
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