DC to DC charger - not needed for boats with proper alternators.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Yes, there is no one ideal system design.

If individuals are happy with some limitations or single points of failure then that's' fine (like a single mast on a yacht )

Folk are free to build what ever they like in most free countries.

Pete

We all should have a single failure point it's called a fuse. Easily repaired but a failure point none the less.
Hence my fla start bank and I'm thinking of a switch to isolate the lfp and place it all on the lead if the lfp fuse blows in an emergency situation.

[CaptainRivet]

Regarding bank.with multiple batteries ans multiple:
Valance drop in batteries are communication connected to each other to combine one bank. How deep that goes,if a full master and slaves i don't know. They are for emergency purposes so six sigma development and therfor price.
DiY due to testing from Andy/ offgrid garage the seplos BMS has a master/slave combination but the BMS is locked and not seperatly avaliable as far as i know.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by newhaul

I'm thinking of a switch to isolate the lfp and place it all on the lead if the lfp fuse blows in an emergency situation.

Already done, if the 2 fuses blows (load and charge bus system design and ElectrodacusBMS requirement terminal-shunt-fuse) or if i need to do some maintenance work on the LFP battery or...
I can switch all or only starter+windlass. Also part of my security defense line concept to be able isolate LFP and still have the boat systems running.

I also start from LFP, better for starter as LFP delivers much more current so less wear on the starter but can switch any time to lead starter if needed or wanted. Well i have the lead and they are new as boatyard screwed my old and had to replace them, didn't wanna give me the money.but won't replace lead if dead.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Already done, if the 2 fuses blows (load and charge bus system design and ElectrodacusBMS requirement terminal-shunt-fuse) or if i need to do some maintenance work on the LFP battery or...
I can switch all or only starter+windlass. Also part of my security defense line concept to be able isolate LFP and still have the boat systems running.

I also start from LFP, better for starter as LFP delivers much more current so less wear on the starter but can switch any time to lead starter if needed or wanted. Well i have the lead and they are new as boatyard screwed my old and had to replace them, didn't wanna give me the money.but won't replace lead if dead.

For my install I need the FLA to run the b2b . To protect my alternator . Also gives me the control to utilize the lifepo4 charging from the helm if I need all 12 horses out of my motor.
No I'm not doing the wakespeed route or any other external alternator regulator setup . The b2b is cheaper for my particular install .

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Regarding bank.with multiple batteries ans multiple:
Valance drop in batteries are communication connected to each other to combine one bank. How deep that goes,if a full master and slaves i don't know. They are for emergency purposes so six sigma development and therfor price.
DiY due to testing from Andy/ offgrid garage the seplos BMS has a master/slave combination but the BMS is locked and not seperatly avaliable as far as i know.

I think a lot is lost in translation in this whole discussion. For example, I have no idea what you are saying here.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by newhaul

For my install I need the FLA to run the b2b . To protect my alternator . Also gives me the control to utilize the lifepo4 charging from the helm if I need all 12 horses out of my motor.
No I'm not doing the wakespeed route or any other external alternator regulator setup . The b2b is cheaper for my particular install .

Have still DC2DC too and if you isolate the LFP by switching the load to FLA nothing happens to Dc2DC or alternator even if its running. The lead as resistive load is always there.
If you want you can connect the remote of Dc2DC to the transfer switch (in series to your switch at the helm) and if you switch load over from LFP to FLA the DC2DC is turn off via remote.

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

I think a lot is lost in translation in this whole discussion. For example, I have no idea what you are saying here.

I stated that the single point of failure in a bank that consists of serveral batteries each with a BMS is that there is no master that cares about the whole bank in total.

This is now taken on by industrie and first solutions are avaliable.
That is taken care by valance if you wanna buy drop ins, their individual battery BMS communicating with each other. How deep master/slave functionality is i don't know.
For rack batteries Seplos offers that Master/Slave but implementation has still serval bugs as Andy shows in his tests, the BMS is locked (so you cannot change parameters) and you cannot buy it individually.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by CaptainRivet

Have still DC2DC too and if you isolate the LFP by switching the load to FLA nothing happens to Dc2DC or alternator even if its running. The lead as resistive load is always there.
If you want you can connect the remote of Dc2DC to the transfer switch (in series to your switch at the helm) and if you switch load over from LFP to FLA the DC2DC is turn off via remote.

Sorry typo the ability to shut off my b2b charge to the lfp from the helm via a simple toggle switch . as to the switching lfp offline and all loads to the Fla that Will be with manual switches. It's what I prefer

[s/v Jedi]

A battery is an energy storage device. I want it to stay shut up and not communicate with anything or anyone. I want it to accept energy for storage, to keep it good for as long as needed and to readily give it back when I need it.

Any issues it should deal with itself without bothering others and that includes other batteries, which are dealing with themselves as well.

If you want batteries to do more then it’s not just a battery anymore… you make it an energy control center which will fight others like it for who is master or slave and if it’s compatible or not and what happens when there’s a software bug or communication error etc. All that is BS which isn’t needed.

[Fuss]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

Routine temperatures of 140°C or 284°F are too high for long term reliable operation.

Ah, I get it now, you are all measuring your alternator temperatures from a connection to a lug on the outside of the alternator. The mastervolt regulator for example, has a maximum temperature of 140 degrees C…but you can choose less….just in case you thought 140 is too high.
It derates your alternator based on the input from this thermistor connected from your lug on the outside of the alternator to the mastervolt regulator.
This lug is detecting a heat that is at least 25 degress less than the real alternator temperature from the internal spinning parts.

Yes, it’s true, when the internal spinning parts have a temperature of 130 degrees your regulator is only seeing 110 degress max…. From your little lug on the outside.

But hey, this is only if you have a real alternator…for those of you who have a sterling YouTube example alternator , it will be running at 180degrees C!!… and so needs much investment in derating technology.

[noelex 77]

Where are you measuring the alternator temperature?

[Fuss]

I’m using infrared temperature gun and pointing it at the alternator until I find the place with the maximum temperature… for me, this is the spinning parts on the inside.

[Fuss]

However the alternator temperature cable is setup as per mastervolt instructions to a bolt on the outside of the alternator. The parameters are set at 140 degrees C.. that’s probably why there is no difference in alternator performance whether I have the temp cable connected or not.

[noelex 77]

I have checked our alternator with an IR thermometer, but our alternator is reasonably closed so there is limited access to measure the internal temperature.

If you are measuring the internal temperature, then 140°C is more understandable, but considering you have no safeguards to automatically reduce the output if the temperature increases, it is higher than I would be comfortable with, but it is your boat so your choice.

[Fuss]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

I have checked our alternator with an IR thermometer, but our alternator is reasonably closed so there is limited access to measure the internal temperature.

If you are measuring the internal temperature, then 140°C is more understandable, but considering you have no safeguards to automatically reduce the output if the temperature increases, it is higher than I would be comfortable with, but it is your boat so your choice.

That’s true, the reason I don’t want to change anything is that it has been working this way for a long time and has not burnt out the alternator and so I’m leaving it as it is. Partly as a test.
There is one difference however, and that is that the old batteries were lead acid and the new are Lifepo4.
However the alternator put out full power for more than an hour with this setup and it does the same with the Lifepo4.
I believe that if an alternator puts out full output with lead acid for an extended period, then with Lifepo4, then it will not be more stressed…however many forum members have a different opinion so this might have to be a separate thread to shoot down this myth.