Boat Fire and Sinking in Route du Rhum

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by team karst

is this relevant? I'm not a chemist, and didn't do well at it.

In what way and in what form does lithium react with water?

Lithium reacts intensely with water, forming lithium hydroxide and highly flammable hydrogen. The colourless solution is highly alkalic. The exothermal reactions lasts longer than the reaction of sodium and water, which is directly below lithium in the periodic chart.

2 Li(s) + 2 H2O -> 2 LiOH (aq) + H2(g)

At 750oC lithium reacts with hydrogen to lithium hydride (LiH). The white powder that forms releases hydrogen gas upon later reaction with water, in amounts of 2800 liter per kilogram hydride. As such, lithium can be applied as hydrogen storage.

That reaction is for lithium metal (Li), but there is no stand-alone lithium metal (Li) in a lithium ion battery. It's an atom in other molecules. Saying the Li in will burn in a lithium ion battery is like saying that water will explode because it contains hydrogen atoms.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by notoldbilbo

"It may be simple, but it’s illegal."

Oh, dear. Someone 'sounded off'. What some might call a 'premature ejaculation'.......

I DID give the hint in #132, and I refer the Honourable Gentleman to 'Annex 1, Section 9.d.i '

You 'n I might consider it not wise, but illegal it is NOT.

It’s such a shame you start with personal insults. Do you know that this isn’t allowed on CF? I never report people who argue with me, but you should stop that.

On 9.b.i (9.d.i doesn’t exist) it clearly states that I am right. Then, in 9.b.ii you are allowed two lights only when it is impractical to comply with 9.b.i. In this case, it is not impractical because all you have to do is tie an oil lamp to the forestay or backstay. I know, I did it for 17 years.

Also, the brightness is a requirement as well and the garden lights simply don’t provide that either.

[Dirk01]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Enough guys

LFp does not normally contain flammable electrolyte. Any high power source of energy has a fire risk. That’s a Function of an energy store. As Nick says a 2x4 is more flammable. Not to mention that propane “ bomb” in the locker

LFP is more then safe “ enough “.

+1

[notoldbilbo]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

It’s such a shame you start with personal insults. Do you know that this isn’t allowed on CF? I never report people who argue with me, but you should stop that.

On 9.b.i (9.d.i doesn’t exist) it clearly states that I am right. Then, in 9.b.ii you are allowed two lights only when it is impractical to comply with 9.b.i. In this case, it is not impractical because all you have to do is tie an oil lamp to the forestay or backstay. I know, I did it for 17 years.

Looking again, I misdirected. Not Annex I, but Rule 25.d.i. 'Sailing Vessels Underway and Vessels Under Oars'



(d) (i) A sailing vessel of less than 7 metres in length shall, if practicable, exhibit the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) or (b) of this Rule, but if she does not, she shall have ready at hand an electric torch or lighted lantern showing a white light which shall be exhibited in sufficient time to prevent collision.




It matters not. Few of us will seek to go to such extremes - we can exercise choice due to our freedoms and our responsibilities. For my own part, I have fitted rather more powerful navigation lights than the very bare minimum requirements the ColRegs call for on my sailboat. In this age of multiple batteries and low-demand LED lights, I see no excuse in being visible at merely 2nm.

I want to be seen at 10nm if I can support the power demand!!

[Dirk01]

Originally Posted by notoldbilbo

Looking again, I misdirected. Not Annex I, but Rule 25.d.i. 'Sailing Vessels Underway and Vessels Under Oars'



(d) (i) A sailing vessel of less than 7 metres in length shall, if practicable, exhibit the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) or (b) of this Rule, but if she does not, she shall have ready at hand an electric torch or lighted lantern showing a white light which shall be exhibited in sufficient time to prevent collision.




It matters not. Few of us will seek to go to such extremes - we can exercise choice due to our freedoms and our responsibilities. For my own part, I have fitted rather more powerful navigation lights than the very bare minimum requirements the ColRegs call for on my sailboat. In this age of multiple batteries and low-demand LED lights, I see no excuse in being visible at merely 2nm.

I want to be seen at 10nm if I can support the power demand!!

+1
Additionally I plan to have red over green at the mast top. This bears many advantages. Refer to rule25 § c. Freely translated: ii) On a vehicle less than 20 meters in length, the distance between these lights shall be at least 1 meter.
However, to extend the mast top 1m could be and would be a PITA (you add roughly 5% more hight and additional weight at the very end). So my plan is to use modern 3D-printig and build my own nav lights. One is barily above the end of the Mast top, one is 1m deeper hugging the mast. Although this approach does not follow the rules - better than using an impractical solution or having nothing. It's a better than nothing compromise. Remember - it is additional. You can switch it off entering the next anchor bight or a harbour.
Others are using white or red flash lights. This is also a better than nothing solution but more far away from the rules.

My 5cts ...

Cheers
Dirk

P.S.: At this point I can't follow the headline: Boat Fire and Sinking in Route du Rhum ...

[Dirk01]

Maybe the pictures gives you an idea of what I meant...

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Dirk01

+1
Additionally I plan to have red over green at the mast top. This bears many advantages. Refer to rule25 § c. Freely translated: ii) On a vehicle less than 20 meters in length, the distance between these lights shall be at least 1 meter.
However, to extend the mast top 1m could be and would be a PITA (you add roughly 5% more hight and additional weight at the very end). So my plan is to use modern 3D-printig and build my own nav lights. One is barily above the end of the Mast top, one is 1m deeper hugging the mast. Although this approach does not follow the rules - better than using an impractical solution or having nothing. It's a better than nothing compromise. Remember - it is additional. You can switch it off entering the next anchor bight or a harbour.
Others are using white or red flash lights. This is also a better than nothing solution but more far away from the rules.

My 5cts ...

Cheers
Dirk

P.S.: At this point I can't follow the headline: Boat Fire and Sinking in Route du Rhum ...

The red over green can be done without a pole… using two red lights at each side of the masthead and then two green lights a meter lower.

I see Hella dropped those with their Naviled line. I guess most go for the tricolor instead.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

The red over green can be done without a pole… using two red lights at each side of the masthead and then two green lights a meter lower.



I see Hella dropped those with their Naviled line. I guess most go for the tricolor instead.

It’s most boats using this mast lights system don’t use a pole they place several up the mast on each side.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

It’s most boats using this mast lights system don’t use a pole they place several up the mast on each side.

That’s what I wrote, why do you repeat it?

But again, it seems there are no NaviLED’s for this.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

That’s what I wrote, why do you repeat it?



But again, it seems there are no NaviLED’s for this.

What’s wrong with these https://www.aquasignal.com.au/shop/p...es-25-classic/two or three should do it

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

What’s wrong with these https://www.aquasignal.com.au/shop/p...es-25-classic/two or three should do it

Well, first it’s not a NaviLed, second it isn’t a 180 degree light. It’s illegal to use this for red over green.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Well, first it’s not a NaviLed, second it isn’t a 180 degree light. It’s illegal to use this for red over green.

Yrs. it I r seen these used by arranging a ring of three to represent a circle of light

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Well, first it’s not a NaviLed, second it isn’t a 180 degree light. It’s illegal to use this for red over green.

Thinking about it, as long as they're close enough together (right up against the mast), is there any reason you couldn't use a pair of 360* lights? As long as the visually appear to be 1 light at a distance of 1 mile, using a pair of 360* lights where some sectors are obscured on each (such as by the mast) instead of a single 360* light meets the requirements listed in Annex I of the COLREGS.

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by tanglewood

You are making a really important point here, but you have the terminology messed up and it risks further confusing people rather than clarifying.


LiFePO4, aka LFP, are a form of Lithium Ion battery, just like all the others. LFP does not stand aside from LithiumIon - it is a subset of Lithium Ion.


Saying that LFP is better than Lithium Ion is like saying AGM batteries are better than lead acid. AGM batteries ARE lead acid batteries, just a specific kind. Or it's like saying that sedans are better than cars. Sedans ARE cars, just a specific kind.



Correct ways to express what you mean, which is very important to communicate, would be:


- Tesla has recently changed to LFP batteries because it's the safest type of lithium ion battery



- LFP is the only type of Lithion Ion battery suitable for use on a boat because it is so much safer than other types of lithium ion batteries.


and lots and lots of others.

Point taken. Agreed, that was what I wanted to express. Thanks.

[Dirk01]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Thinking about it, as long as they're close enough together (right up against the mast), is there any reason you couldn't use a pair of 360* lights? As long as the visually appear to be 1 light at a distance of 1 mile, using a pair of 360* lights where some sectors are obscured on each (such as by the mast) instead of a single 360* light meets the requirements listed in Annex I of the COLREGS.

Maybe a classic bow light with 225° and Festoon c10w bulb (normally white but now replaced by a red or green LED bulb with 180° beam angle) mounted on each side of the mast is a solution? So only two lights form a 360° circle with a little overlap reserve back and forward. Or a combination of an anchor light / tri-color light on the mast top (with the tri-color bulbs all in red) and two green ones as described above 1m below. Not expensive and prooven.
Important is to use EMI proofed bulbs. Otherwise they might disturb the VHF/AIS.
It's hard to find the fitting LED bulbs for 24VDC and 180° beam angle in red and green...