Another one: aground at ponce inlet and rescued

[SailFastTri]

As usual the story is incomplete and we are not justified to judge the skipper. The story said one person was taken off the boat. We have no idea what extenuating circumstance led him to be there at that time. If he was singlehanding in rough conditions on a lee shore at night he was very possibly fatigued, cold, and running out of options. Maybe there were other factors as well. The weather was well forecast as part of a major system, so it also raises questions about why he was out there, but there might be reasonable explanations. I’d prefer to give the guy the benefit of doubt and consider ‘there but for the grace…’ we should all be thankful for the CG and other first responders.

[5BTM]

It would be nice if the CG would publish a cold, unemotional summary of what happened, why it happened and what could have prevented it, instead of the touchy-feely BS.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Chotu

??? huh?

it means you are starting a flame thread just to start a flame thread!

[BlueH2Obound]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

it means you are starting a flame thread just to start a flame thread!

Nailed it first time!

[SailingHarmonie]

Ponce is nasty, and deadly without local knowledge. Entering the inlet it looks on all the charts like there is a clear channel to the north. There is NOT. it is totally shoaled in. The best seamanship in the world means little if you have charts that are clearly wrong. And for those of you who swear by "sonar charts", they are wrong here too! Add in strong tidal currents and several sharp turns in the channel, and it is very tough in bad conditions.

Anybody who actually cruises a boat to places new to them can not always collect all the local info you might like, and you bet on the charts. We have all done it. ALMOST all the time it is a good bet. But sometimes you lose. If you haven't had a problem, it's luck not skill.

I have been into Ponce during the day and got hit by a raging Florida special pop-up thunderstorm and downpour just inside the inlet. Visibility dropped to little more than the bow of the boat. It was an extremely high pucker trip with no place to safely stop, and needing to navigate strictly by GPS and radar from buoy to buoy. It worked, but I certainly would not be feeling vastly superior to someone doing the same thing who ran aground.

The mistake this boat in the OP's post made was entering an inlet that is this dicy during really bad weather at night. If he planned to come in there, his weather routing was TERRIBLE. The bad weather there has been forecast for days. Unless I had a serious emergancy, I'd have taken my chances offshore. But that does highlight a common misconception among inexperienced sailors, they are afraid of the open ocean and feel secure near land. That is VERY dangerous input to your decision making process.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

it means you are starting a flame thread just to start a flame thread!

in what way is it a flame thread?

are you just unhappy that you’re also a sailor and all the boats that wash up on the east coast this year are sailboats?

you feel threatened/flamed because you sail? really?


you may not realize this but i’m also a sailor and am in the category that is supposedly being attacked/flamed.

not sure why you are so offended

[Be Free]

This was the first inlet I ever navigated fifty-odd years ago. It was dangerous then and has not gotten any better. It is not to be trifled with.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Chotu

i
not sure why you are so offended

I am not. You started a useless flame thread and I just called it as such and am not alone it appears.

I had a power boat friend go around yesterday. Should I start a thread saying seamanship is gone because of this?

[Snore]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

Most of those Florida east coast inlets are really nasty in even moderately bad conditions. Very easy to get confused on the poorly marked approaches too.

Sorry- this is simply FAKE NEWS!

There are good 'class A' or all-weather inlets, there are a few dodgy ones, and some that only locals use- and even then they can get dangerous and deadly for locals. All require basic chart reading skills and some time studying before approaching.


Not sure if this vessel was a local or someone passing through, but Government Cut (Miami), Port Everglades (Ft Lauderdale), Lake Worth (West Palm), Ft. Pierce, Port Canaveral and St. Johns River are all safe in any condition. When folks take other, less well-marked or maintained inlets- bad things can happen.

[Ixium]

Originally Posted by 5BTM

It would be nice if the CG would publish a cold, unemotional summary of what happened, why it happened and what could have prevented it, instead of the touchy-feely BS.

We have a program called “Flight Safety” that investigates any and all incidents where there was damage to an aircraft (or person) or potential damage to an aircraft (or person).

There’s never any names used, they can’t get people in any kind of trouble and if there is an actual investigation none of their findings can be used.

Simply exists to find out the truth and how it can be prevented in the future.

[Kettlewell]

Not sure if this vessel was a local or someone passing through, but Government Cut (Miami), Port Everglades (Ft Lauderdale), Lake Worth (West Palm), Ft. Pierce, Port Canaveral and St. Johns River are all safe in any condition. When folks take other, less well-marked or maintained inlets- bad things can happen.

Sure, but when I wrote "Most of those Florida east coast inlets are really nasty in even moderately bad conditions," I meant "most," not all. And, even the supposed "all-weather" inlets can be nasty in bad conditions. I've taken green water over the deck in several of them.

[Kettlewell]

people who sail used to have a reputation for being a little bit more careful. Now the power boats are doing better than we are lol

As I think you know, official CG statistics don't bear that out. But, I would venture to guess that shallower draft power boats are more forgiving in shoal-infested inlets, and if they do go aground tend to be much easier to pull off. I do think there are a lot of sailors out there relying too much on their electronics and assuming that vision on the bright screen is more accurate than it is. Then add in how the bright screen destroys your night vision, and maybe keeps you from putting someone on the bow to watch out for breakers, and maybe encourages you to try a night entrance when you might not have if you were uncertain of your position. Then, go aground hard on something with a wing keel and it is like digging in a big anchor. Back in the day, a full-keel boat had a very rounded leading edge to a steeply sloped keel that could be somewhat forgiving if you ran aground, and you could almost count on being able to back off. Lots of factors contributing to these groundings. I would rate inexperience as the #1 factor. Someone in the past that had a bigger cruising sailboat would have been sailing for decades before they got out there cruising. A lot of times today the big boat is their first one.

[leecea]

Just to make sure I understand... if you have 6 ft seas doesn't that mean the water level is going from -3 to +3 compared to the charts anyway. So I could be in 7' of water with a 5' draft but with 6' seas I'm likely to be in a bad situation.

[mako]

Originally Posted by Cheyne

You have missing markers and shifting sand. It looks nice and open, but on a nice day you will see power boaters out at the sand bar walking around on it just inside of the green markers. Then add in the weather that night it is one of the last entrances I would have wanted to attempt.

"Shifting sand bars" is right! My wife and I lived locally and boated there all the time and we'd hit bottom quite often. On the good side, it's a nice place to get out and walk around and the water is relatively clear close to the inlet, so the swimming is enjoyable, not gross like most of the Indian River.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by leecea

Just to make sure I understand... if you have 6 ft seas doesn't that mean the water level is going from -3 to +3 compared to the charts anyway. So I could be in 7' of water with a 5' draft but with 6' seas I'm likely to be in a bad situation.

I think it’s important to note that Bay chop doesn’t seem to work like this. probably just swells. i’ve never put my boat into a situation where it could hit the bottom based on the swells. Typically, there is deeper water to be found for navigation. however, I have done it frequently in the bay.

thankfully, the frequency of the waves is so high in the bay that the boat itself doesn’t go up and down the +3 -3. . It seems to just take the average and move up and down a few inches