Another one: aground at ponce inlet and rescued

[Kettlewell]

Just to make sure I understand... if you have 6 ft seas doesn't that mean the water level is going from -3 to +3 compared to the charts anyway. So I could be in 7' of water with a 5' draft but with 6' seas I'm likely to be in a bad situation.

Potentially, though often onshore waves and wind will raise the sea level (think storm surge). Seas will pile up on the shoals and break too. Bottom line is that you don't want to be going into any place with six-foot seas, and if the normal depth is 7 feet it will be bad news.

[phorvati]

Originally Posted by Snore

Sorry- this is simply FAKE NEWS!
Not sure if this vessel was a local or someone passing through, but Government Cut (Miami), Port Everglades (Ft Lauderdale), Lake Worth (West Palm), Ft. Pierce, Port Canaveral and St. Johns River are all safe in any condition. When folks take other, less well-marked or maintained inlets- bad things can happen.

There is no such thing as safe inlet in any condition. Any implies storms, gales etc etc. There are times when some of those inlets you mentioned are not safe, especially the ones involving fast moving water.

St Johns inlet can be impassable under certain conditions for small craft. And depending on boat size these conditions can occur quite often. Like this weekend for instance on an outgoing tide and strong SE winds.

[Snore]

Somehow I knew this was going to turn into "one of those" discussions.

Let's use a smidge of common sense. Would you rather go through a well marked inlet with a 100% sure controlled depth of at least 50', or a smaller inlet that has an approximate depth of 15-20 feet. And that depth is only maintained if the permanently located dredge is not working.

Yes, in a gale even Everglades Inlet is dodgy. But in the same conditions, I would rather take any boat through Everglades vs. Hillsboro or Boca.

As a now retired delivery guy, I NEVER EVER used "non-commercial" inlets. The time I may have saved was not worth the risk of damage.

[TPG]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

I think to some extent sailors travel in more challenging places, weather, conditions, etc. than many powerboaters do. And a challenging inlet is likely easier to screw up in a deeper draft, low power sailboat than in a decently capable (read: not open bow) powerboat.

You hit the nail on the head my man. I've gotten out of bad circumstances in a power boat before because I had the power to do so. Had I been on a sailboat during those circumstances the outcome would not have been so pleasant.

[Seighlor]

The inlet portion of Ponce Inlet is well marked and safe if one stays within the marked course that parallels the north jetty.

Turning south, once beyond the jetties and at their western terminus, the channel, marked by floating buoys continues to be safe into the waters of the ICW and along the shore of New Smyrna Beach.

The tricky part, to be avoided by those without current local knowledge, is the unmarked channel that curves to the west; then north to Daytona Beach. Though there is deep water in this channel, normally ten to seventeen feet at low tide, it is best traversed at low tide when the shoal water is displaced by clearly observed sand bars.

But never attempt at night unless following a route already in place on your chartplotter.

[RedneckRedcoat]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

it means you are starting a flame thread just to start a flame thread!

Wow never thought I would say this and perhaps it’s because it’s Christmas and I’m feeling all festive and wanting good will to all men but …. I got to agree with sailorboy. This is just another flame thread that is relying on assumptions and not fact. Don’t know the circumstance so who are we to comment . Everyone makes mistakes unless your Jesus.

To the original OP, If you’re so concerned about the lack of seamanship how about you post some posts about how you go about different inlets , what to watch out for. How about teaching and really contributing to the community rather than ridiculing.

The weather and conditions are very different this season. This is our 4th time of traversing the east coast to get to south Florida , favorable weather window are few and far between, it bone chilling cold. We have traveled more of the ICW than I care to so I can see how things can quickly go south , I’m glad the captin is alright but am sorry for the loss of his boat. I hope he can salvage it.

[JSSailem]

This is the statement that jumped out of the text.

Coast Guard Sector Jacksonville watchstanders received a notification at 9:43 p.m.,

How does the story start... It was a dark and stormy night... Intuitively you know that wha comes next is not going to be good.

All of the electronics gear, ease of finding a first big boat, and youtube videos of dreamers taking the plunge has influenced non sailors to think there is nothing to this sailing adventures. No Fear... Just Do It... thinking contributes to a lack of seamanship among new owners.

The article indicates that the skipper was single-handing the boat as only one person was rescued. This only leads to speculation about why the skipper was entering the port at night.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by RedneckRedcoat

Wow never thought I would say this and perhaps it’s because it’s Christmas and I’m feeling all festive and wanting good will to all men but …. I got to agree with sailorboy. This is just another flame thread that is relying on assumptions and not fact. Don’t know the circumstance so who are we to comment . Everyone makes mistakes unless your Jesus.

To the original OP, If you’re so concerned about the lack of seamanship how about you post some posts about how you go about different inlets , what to watch out for. How about teaching and really contributing to the community rather than ridiculing.

The weather and conditions are very different this season. This is our 4th time of traversing the east coast to get to south Florida , favorable weather window are few and far between, it bone chilling cold. We have traveled more of the ICW than I care to so I can see how things can quickly go south , I’m glad the captin is alright but am sorry for the loss of his boat. I hope he can salvage it.

no, this is the Christmas spirit like every year where people gang up on me at the holidays. It happens every damn year. This happened last year too. A bunch of yahoos from the Washington state did the same thing last christmas week.

everybody thinks the moderators aren’t looking so they stop behaving I guess

I created the thread to draw attention to the very sad fact that there is some really poor seamanship going on on the East Coast and sailboats are the ones to blame. In the old days, powerboats used to make all of these mistakes. Sea Rays and whatnot. sailboats and their crews were known to have a little bit more seamanship. And it was a well deserved reputation. power boats used be the ones washed up on shore. Now? It’s all sailors. we have had more than a half a dozen sailboats washing up along the eastern seaboard in the last few months. pathetic.

So why don’t you look at the first post?

where exactly did I start flaming the person in this particular instance or any instance? Show me. Quote it.

Because I think you are attributing everyone else’s comments about this particular case and the inlets to me. I didn’t make those comments. Other people did. I talked about the pathetic seamanship of “sailors” as a whole which apparently has gone down the drain based on all these boats washing up.

I don’t care about this particular wash up. I don’t care about any particular wash up. Looking at them all together, we suck as a group at this point.

[Chotu]

how do I go about inlets? Are you kidding? There is no secret to going about an inlet. you look at the chart, you start at the safe water mark if there is one, or you choose a safe water point, and you go in a straight line and/or along the route prescribed by the current waypoints or markers.

you might want to watch out for wind Against The Current sometimes. standing waves can be rough. go slowly if you have to deal with those

none of these boats washing up were trying to go into an inlet. They all messed up navigation and hit the bottom because they cut it too close. Or they had cascading failures from improper boat maintenance. (rig broken, engine broken) A couple smacked right into jetties. Poor navigation. Poor decision making. Poor maintenance. Poor seamanship. Didn’t stay in deep water



Note: if you feel the weather conditions are so different this year, you need to just keep an eye on the weather. And proceed accordingly. You’re going to blame the weather for all of this bad seamanship? People getting “blown off course?”. lolol

[TBW]

Things I have to teach myself again and again about east coast inlets:
Beaufort NC: usually rough, deep channel well marked. If the dredge is there be sure to call him and see how he wants you to go around him.
Charleston: jettys are awash at high tide, you think you see them but you dont, go out to the sea buoy.
Savannah / Hilton Head: Big ship channel, cut over to HH lots to watch out for.
Fernadina: usually foggy, Coast Guard is around if you need them but plenty of room.
St Augustine: usually one or no markers; stay in the middle, sandbar to the north can come out a ways.
Stuart: home of the "Crossroads" have to have Army Corps of Engineers overlays. But have seen 105 foot Jim Smith going through. Inlet ok but wiggles and gets narrow.
Daylight only for sure.
Only inlet I use in the dark is Charleston.
You get tired and make mistakes. Waiting for daylight you get more tired; make more mistakes.
And - polish fuel and polish it some more; change fuel filters a LOT. Be ready to switch / change filter in a hurry.
Be rested, have daylight and dont shortcut the inlet.
My first impulse is never to follow any of this. But I keep trying to learn.

[AGermain]

I ran aground inside Ponce Inlet a couple of years ago. My chart plotter showed plenty of water at that location and nearby. The conclusion is that the shoals shift due to storms. We got off without further incident and continued on.

[mindsofman]

For some reason,this last 6-12 months have seen
More groundings ,sinkings , maydays,Pan Pans and TowBoat
Calls for ages,,maybe even going back prior to GPS..
If one notes , more than 50% of these accidents involve
Folks 65 and older . Some of these elder couples have
Even had a " Professional " captain aboard..
???????
Another side effect of the COVID Vaccine maybe ???

[merrydolphin]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

I don't think that it's all antidotal, but there has been a shift in boating/sailing.
Not that long ago most sailboats had little engines with not much more than an eggbeater prop, the engines were "auxiliary" power used to get you in/out of a slip or maneuver in/out of an anchorage.
People became "sailors" by starting out in small boats and building the skills to actually "sail", and they learned a few basic rules. Things like not getting too close to land and not to put all their faith in an engine, or even the most basic idea of not leaving the dock without having an anchor ready to be deployed within moments.
How many of these "accidents" do we see where the rig/sails are in good condition, but an engine/electronics issue causes the loss of the boat?
Don't many of these accidents seem to occur at night?
A screen filled with icons gives lots of information, but it doesn't teach seamanship or imbue someone with situational awareness.

As a US Sailing Cruising instructor, I have to agree. Remember, do not rely on any ONE source of navigation. And in our courses we emphasize learning navigation WITHOUT electronics initially. Piloting and DED reconing, depth curves etc. then, on to MFD, radar etc. I see since the advent of GPS and particularly chart plotters, that so many sailors set out with not much more than the same skill to use a gps in there car!

I use to do it with a compass, hand bearing compass, lead line and a sextant. While I certainly don’t advocate doing that again! We do need more skills than it takes to navigate you car. A lot more! I taught on and offshore San Francisco, a very challenging area. Many of my students are now sailing the world. Better training for ocean cruising would help a lot.

We just lost a boat going into Turtle Bay Pacific coast of Mexico. It’s not that hard to do, an open bay with some well charted hazards. As the vessel was concentrating on the chart plotter and not additional clear methods available, they cut the corner and hit rocks. A compass bearing on the many lights in the anchorage would have shown that they were on a “danger bearing” with the rocks. The boat sank and they were all rescued by the local rescue boat. An avoidable shame. So easy to focus on those plotters and not other methods too.

[Goodxcharly]

I think chart plotters are to blame. I only started using them 9 years ago and have bumped into to 2 rocks since.
Eyes are glued to the chart plotter. It must be right. Forgetting about taking in the surroundings and slowing down.
Probably most of the groundings could of been avoided with a slower hullspeed, lookout on the bow. If you did ground you could back off.
Chart plotters make you lazy.

[MHTinkler]

Charts are just that - charts. They can only provide information about conditions at the time they were published. As we all know, things change over time, especially in places where tide and current have significant effects. GO SLOW and pay close attention to your depth gauges (or sonar if you are so blessed).