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Q Xopa · 15-06-2019, 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by girlfreind

Check shelter bay marina in panama

Of course it is a regional convergence point.
Is there some other suspicion or reason for this suggestion?

GILow · 15-06-2019, 23:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Offjetnow

Additional Photos of 'Jade Queen' can be viewed on FB in the 'Vagabond Owners Group'. Attachment 193851

A beautiful boat. I do hope you get her back.

I can't imagine which felt worse, thinking she'd been lost to the storm or finding out that someone may have stolen her. Either would have been horrible.

Good luck with your search.

Joe Abbott · 17-06-2019, 03:39

After seeing your BOLO ("be on the lookout") post on three different sites, I decided to do a little inquiring, besides just reading the post here.

Some of these statements are assumptions (makes an ASS-U-&-ME) so correct anything I get wrong.

You bought Jade Queen, a Vagabond 47 of William Garden design, in Tortola, British Virgin Islands in June 2013.

· It is assumed you registered and had the original USCG COD in your name and in your possession prior to departure to Miami, FL. [46 CFR 67.313]

· That since it was previously USCG registered it is assumed it had the letters “NO. ” with COD number permanently affixed to an interior structural part of the hull or on a separate plate permanently fastened to the hull. [46 CFR 67.121] Hopefully, you know the location of this mandatory marking and have a picture of it and the area, as “proof”.

· It is assumed the Ships name (JADE QUEEN) and hailing port is clearly marked together on the hull (usually stern), minimum lettering 4 inches in height [46 CFR 67.123].

o You state in response #9 – “Miami(homeport)” is Miami Florida marked on the stern?

o Or, is it still “ST THOMAS VI” as reflected in data search of US registered vessel?

o What the hailing port on the stern actually is should be included in your BOLO.

One of the data searches of US registered vessel for COD 904841 shows: Vessel Call Sign: WCW8098.

· A Federal Communications Commission (FCC) Universal Licensing System (ULS) license search on Call Sign: WCW8098 identifies this call sign is assigned to a ship named JADE QUEEN with Official Ship # 904841 and it expired 08/15/2016 – this expired license is assigned to someone named Ruth A Palatnik – believe to be the prior owner, AKA - Ruth A. Vezzetti.

· Subsequent license searches on your name, “Richardson, Warren R”, yielded no FCC records found.

· As JADE QUEEN was located at and purchased in a foreign port, it was incumbent upon you to obtain a FCC Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit and a Ships Radio Station Authorization. I assume this was an oversight or I searched incorrectly.

· If you had this paperwork work (licenses) it could serve as another evidentiary piece of ownership.

You stated JADE QUEEN was moored at Dinner Key Marina, Coconut Grove, Miami, Flordia prior to Hurricane Irma which struck Florida mid-September 2017.

· After Hurricane Irma passed, you returned, and your boat was gone.

· You searched the bay, searched by airplane, scoured ALL the sites that FWC was using to bring vessels ashore, and handed out flyers to the Officers involved.

· You 'assumed' that the FWC, USCG, and Lloyd's would be searching, --- I assume no official police “theft” report was filed as internet searches on missing/stolen boats provide no results for your boat.

· You had insurance and they did pay the undervalued policy.

· You did not renew or keep current your USCG COD.

· Now you suspect your boat is in another’s possession.

Florida has no salvage law allowing the finder of an abandoned vessel the right of ownership. It is a crime in the state of Florida to take an abandoned vessel without first getting a title to it; doing so is considered theft and could result in fines or even jail time.

· Section 705.103, Florida Statutes, states that a person who finds an abandoned vessel and wants to make claim to it, and ultimately title it, must first report it to a law enforcement officer. The law enforcement agency will collect a fee to conduct an investigation and determine the owner of the vessel. If the vessel is not claimed in the process of the investigation, the law enforcement agency may transfer it to the finder with a bill of sale and evidence of the investigation. The finder would then apply to FLHSMV to have the title put into his name.

· Based on your story and these laws, if your boat is out there, it is still legally yours.

Recommendations – If you really believe your boat is out there somewhere:

Realize you have no current, valid, or legal paperwork to back up your claim of ownership.

· First, renew your COD at NVDC by filing form CG-1258, Application For Initial Issue, Exchange, Or Replacement Of Certificate Of Documentation; Redocumentation. This gives you a current, valid, and legal paperwork to your claim.

· Obtain a letter from your insurance company stating they paid your loss and they have no claim of ownership.

· File an official police report of theft in a Miami police station.

o Include a copy of your current and official USCG COD.
o Include a copy of your insurance company’s official Statement.
o Include a copy of your Florida’s last vessel registration. (It is mandatory for documented vessel to be registered in Florida, if used on Florida waters for longer than 90 days – I assume you have this.)
o Include a notarized statement of facts of your story of loss and futile search.

· Post your loss on every stolen boat website out there – most are free.

· Continue your BOLO on Facebook and social media.

Next, it is assumed based on your story, you suspect your boat is outside of US territories and waters.

Compile a complete certified copy of the police report and all the documents included above. Have them Apostilled by the US State Department. These Apostilled documents should be recognized as legal documents in foreign country with the same force of law they treat their own documents as stipulated by the 1961 Hague Convention Treaty.
If you find your boat in a foreign country, file a local police report with your Apostilled documents as evidence – get a good lawyer and fight.

If other's find flaws in the above or have additional suggestions, chime in.

Best wishes and good hunting, Warren.

FlyingScot · 17-06-2019, 05:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Abbott

After seeing your BOLO ("be on the lookout") post on three different sites, I decided to do a little inquiring, besides just reading the post here.

Some of these statements are assumptions (makes an ASS-U-&-ME) so correct anything I get wrong.

You bought Jade Queen, a Vagabond 47 of William Garden design, in Tortola, British Virgin Islands in June 2013.

· It is assumed you registered and had the original USCG COD in your name and in your possession prior to departure to Miami, FL. [46 CFR 67.313]

· That since it was previously USCG registered it is assumed it had the letters “NO. ” with COD number permanently affixed to an interior structural part of the hull or on a separate plate permanently fastened to the hull. [46 CFR 67.121] Hopefully, you know the location of this mandatory marking and have a picture of it and the area, as “proof”.

· It is assumed the Ships name (JADE QUEEN) and hailing port is clearly marked together on the hull (usually stern), minimum lettering 4 inches in height [46 CFR 67.123].

o You state in response #9 – “Miami(homeport)” is Miami Florida marked on the stern?

o Or, is it still “ST THOMAS VI” as reflected in data search of US registered vessel?

o What the hailing port on the stern actually is should be included in your BOLO.

One of the data searches of US registered vessel for COD 904841 shows: Vessel Call Sign: WCW8098.

· A Federal Communications Commission (FCC) Universal Licensing System (ULS) license search on Call Sign: WCW8098 identifies this call sign is assigned to a ship named JADE QUEEN with Official Ship # 904841 and it expired 08/15/2016 – this expired license is assigned to someone named Ruth A Palatnik – believe to be the prior owner, AKA - Ruth A. Vezzetti.

· Subsequent license searches on your name, “Richardson, Warren R”, yielded no FCC records found.

· As JADE QUEEN was located at and purchased in a foreign port, it was incumbent upon you to obtain a FCC Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit and a Ships Radio Station Authorization. I assume this was an oversight or I searched incorrectly.

· If you had this paperwork work (licenses) it could serve as another evidentiary piece of ownership.

You stated JADE QUEEN was moored at Dinner Key Marina, Coconut Grove, Miami, Flordia prior to Hurricane Irma which struck Florida mid-September 2017.

· After Hurricane Irma passed, you returned, and your boat was gone.

· You searched the bay, searched by airplane, scoured ALL the sites that FWC was using to bring vessels ashore, and handed out flyers to the Officers involved.

· You 'assumed' that the FWC, USCG, and Lloyd's would be searching, --- I assume no official police “theft” report was filed as internet searches on missing/stolen boats provide no results for your boat.

· You had insurance and they did pay the undervalued policy.

· You did not renew or keep current your USCG COD.

· Now you suspect your boat is in another’s possession.

Florida has no salvage law allowing the finder of an abandoned vessel the right of ownership. It is a crime in the state of Florida to take an abandoned vessel without first getting a title to it; doing so is considered theft and could result in fines or even jail time.

· Section 705.103, Florida Statutes, states that a person who finds an abandoned vessel and wants to make claim to it, and ultimately title it, must first report it to a law enforcement officer. The law enforcement agency will collect a fee to conduct an investigation and determine the owner of the vessel. If the vessel is not claimed in the process of the investigation, the law enforcement agency may transfer it to the finder with a bill of sale and evidence of the investigation. The finder would then apply to FLHSMV to have the title put into his name.

· Based on your story and these laws, if your boat is out there, it is still legally yours.

Recommendations – If you really believe your boat is out there somewhere:

Realize you have no current, valid, or legal paperwork to back up your claim of ownership.

· First, renew your COD at NVDC by filing form CG-1258, Application For Initial Issue, Exchange, Or Replacement Of Certificate Of Documentation; Redocumentation. This gives you a current, valid, and legal paperwork to your claim.

· Obtain a letter from your insurance company stating they paid your loss and they have no claim of ownership.

· File an official police report of theft in a Miami police station.

o Include a copy of your current and official USCG COD.
o Include a copy of your insurance company’s official Statement.
o Include a copy of your Florida’s last vessel registration. (It is mandatory for documented vessel to be registered in Florida, if used on Florida waters for longer than 90 days – I assume you have this.)
o Include a notarized statement of facts of your story of loss and futile search.

· Post your loss on every stolen boat website out there – most are free.

· Continue your BOLO on Facebook and social media.

Next, it is assumed based on your story, you suspect your boat is outside of US territories and waters.

Compile a complete certified copy of the police report and all the documents included above. Have them Apostilled by the US State Department. These Apostilled documents should be recognized as legal documents in foreign country with the same force of law they treat their own documents as stipulated by the 1961 Hague Convention Treaty.
If you find your boat in a foreign country, file a local police report with your Apostilled documents as evidence – get a good lawyer and fight.

If other's find flaws in the above or have additional suggestions, chime in.

Best wishes and good hunting, Warren.

Good info. Doesn’t the insurance company have ownership rights over the OP since they paid out on the claim as a total loss / missing boat?

Joe Abbott · 17-06-2019, 05:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Good info. Doesn’t the insurance company have ownership rights over the OP since they paid out on the claim as a total loss / missing boat?

Based on what I read on Irma, most insurance companies that paid out did not claim ownership of the vessels - if they did, then they would be liable for the recovery, cleanup, and disposal.

The owner of Jade Queen never stated he had to endorse the USCG COD or transfer title by legal bill of sale to the insurance company so I assume ownership remains his.

bensolomon · 17-06-2019, 06:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Abbott

After seeing your BOLO ("be on the lookout") post on three different sites, I decided to do a little inquiring, besides just reading the post here.

Some of these statements are assumptions (makes an ASS-U-&-ME) so correct anything I get wrong.

You bought Jade Queen, a Vagabond 47 of William Garden design, in Tortola, British Virgin Islands in June 2013.

· It is assumed you registered and had the original USCG COD in your name and in your possession prior to departure to Miami, FL. [46 CFR 67.313]

· That since it was previously USCG registered it is assumed it had the letters “NO. ” with COD number permanently affixed to an interior structural part of the hull or on a separate plate permanently fastened to the hull. [46 CFR 67.121] Hopefully, you know the location of this mandatory marking and have a picture of it and the area, as “proof”.

· It is assumed the Ships name (JADE QUEEN) and hailing port is clearly marked together on the hull (usually stern), minimum lettering 4 inches in height [46 CFR 67.123].

o You state in response #9 – “Miami(homeport)” is Miami Florida marked on the stern?

o Or, is it still “ST THOMAS VI” as reflected in data search of US registered vessel?

o What the hailing port on the stern actually is should be included in your BOLO.

One of the data searches of US registered vessel for COD 904841 shows: Vessel Call Sign: WCW8098.

· A Federal Communications Commission (FCC) Universal Licensing System (ULS) license search on Call Sign: WCW8098 identifies this call sign is assigned to a ship named JADE QUEEN with Official Ship # 904841 and it expired 08/15/2016 – this expired license is assigned to someone named Ruth A Palatnik – believe to be the prior owner, AKA - Ruth A. Vezzetti.

· Subsequent license searches on your name, “Richardson, Warren R”, yielded no FCC records found.

· As JADE QUEEN was located at and purchased in a foreign port, it was incumbent upon you to obtain a FCC Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit and a Ships Radio Station Authorization. I assume this was an oversight or I searched incorrectly.

· If you had this paperwork work (licenses) it could serve as another evidentiary piece of ownership.

You stated JADE QUEEN was moored at Dinner Key Marina, Coconut Grove, Miami, Flordia prior to Hurricane Irma which struck Florida mid-September 2017.

· After Hurricane Irma passed, you returned, and your boat was gone.

· You searched the bay, searched by airplane, scoured ALL the sites that FWC was using to bring vessels ashore, and handed out flyers to the Officers involved.

· You 'assumed' that the FWC, USCG, and Lloyd's would be searching, --- I assume no official police “theft” report was filed as internet searches on missing/stolen boats provide no results for your boat.

· You had insurance and they did pay the undervalued policy.

· You did not renew or keep current your USCG COD.

· Now you suspect your boat is in another’s possession.

Florida has no salvage law allowing the finder of an abandoned vessel the right of ownership. It is a crime in the state of Florida to take an abandoned vessel without first getting a title to it; doing so is considered theft and could result in fines or even jail time.

· Section 705.103, Florida Statutes, states that a person who finds an abandoned vessel and wants to make claim to it, and ultimately title it, must first report it to a law enforcement officer. The law enforcement agency will collect a fee to conduct an investigation and determine the owner of the vessel. If the vessel is not claimed in the process of the investigation, the law enforcement agency may transfer it to the finder with a bill of sale and evidence of the investigation. The finder would then apply to FLHSMV to have the title put into his name.

· Based on your story and these laws, if your boat is out there, it is still legally yours.

Recommendations – If you really believe your boat is out there somewhere:

Realize you have no current, valid, or legal paperwork to back up your claim of ownership.

· First, renew your COD at NVDC by filing form CG-1258, Application For Initial Issue, Exchange, Or Replacement Of Certificate Of Documentation; Redocumentation. This gives you a current, valid, and legal paperwork to your claim.

· Obtain a letter from your insurance company stating they paid your loss and they have no claim of ownership.

· File an official police report of theft in a Miami police station.

o Include a copy of your current and official USCG COD.
o Include a copy of your insurance company’s official Statement.
o Include a copy of your Florida’s last vessel registration. (It is mandatory for documented vessel to be registered in Florida, if used on Florida waters for longer than 90 days – I assume you have this.)
o Include a notarized statement of facts of your story of loss and futile search.

· Post your loss on every stolen boat website out there – most are free.

· Continue your BOLO on Facebook and social media.

Next, it is assumed based on your story, you suspect your boat is outside of US territories and waters.

Compile a complete certified copy of the police report and all the documents included above. Have them Apostilled by the US State Department. These Apostilled documents should be recognized as legal documents in foreign country with the same force of law they treat their own documents as stipulated by the 1961 Hague Convention Treaty.
If you find your boat in a foreign country, file a local police report with your Apostilled documents as evidence – get a good lawyer and fight.

If other's find flaws in the above or have additional suggestions, chime in.

Best wishes and good hunting, Warren.

Wow!! That was a great post!

valhalla360 · 17-06-2019, 07:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Abbott

Based on what I read on Irma, most insurance companies that paid out did not claim ownership of the vessels - if they did, then they would be liable for the recovery, cleanup, and disposal.

The owner of Jade Queen never stated he had to endorse the USCG COD or transfer title by legal bill of sale to the insurance company so I assume ownership remains his.

Possibly a gray area since there was no boat to hand over. Better to get confirmation from the insurance company...of course, if you say you think you found it and it's floating and functional, at this point, they will probably say sure, we want it.

Also most insurance policies have a clean up provision, so not taking ownership doesn't get them out of that.

Joe Abbott · 17-06-2019, 07:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Possibly a gray area since there was no boat to hand over. Better to get confirmation from the insurance company...of course, if you say you think you found it and it's floating and functional, at this point, they will probably say sure, we want it.

Also most insurance policies have a clean up provision, so not taking ownership doesn't get them out of that.

Under Recommendations:

Obtain a letter from your insurance company stating they paid your loss and they have no claim of ownership.

This should cover all bases?

·

f

john61ct · 17-06-2019, 07:32

yes great info, of solid value for others to follow not just the OP

Offjetnow · 17-06-2019, 08:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Abbott

After seeing your BOLO ("be on the lookout") post on three different sites, I decided to do a little inquiring, besides just reading the post here.

Some of these statements are assumptions (makes an ASS-U-&-ME) so correct anything I get wrong.

You bought Jade Queen, a Vagabond 47 of William Garden design, in Tortola, British Virgin Islands in June 2013.

· It is assumed you registered and had the original USCG COD in your name and in your possession prior to departure to Miami, FL. [46 CFR 67.313]

· That since it was previously USCG registered it is assumed it had the letters “NO. ” with COD number permanently affixed to an interior structural part of the hull or on a separate plate permanently fastened to the hull. [46 CFR 67.121] Hopefully, you know the location of this mandatory marking and have a picture of it and the area, as “proof”.

· It is assumed the Ships name (JADE QUEEN) and hailing port is clearly marked together on the hull (usually stern), minimum lettering 4 inches in height [46 CFR 67.123].

o You state in response #9 – “Miami(homeport)” is Miami Florida marked on the stern?

o Or, is it still “ST THOMAS VI” as reflected in data search of US registered vessel?

o What the hailing port on the stern actually is should be included in your BOLO.

One of the data searches of US registered vessel for COD 904841 shows: Vessel Call Sign: WCW8098.

· A Federal Communications Commission (FCC) Universal Licensing System (ULS) license search on Call Sign: WCW8098 identifies this call sign is assigned to a ship named JADE QUEEN with Official Ship # 904841 and it expired 08/15/2016 – this expired license is assigned to someone named Ruth A Palatnik – believe to be the prior owner, AKA - Ruth A. Vezzetti.

· Subsequent license searches on your name, “Richardson, Warren R”, yielded no FCC records found.

· As JADE QUEEN was located at and purchased in a foreign port, it was incumbent upon you to obtain a FCC Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit and a Ships Radio Station Authorization. I assume this was an oversight or I searched incorrectly.

· If you had this paperwork work (licenses) it could serve as another evidentiary piece of ownership.

You stated JADE QUEEN was moored at Dinner Key Marina, Coconut Grove, Miami, Flordia prior to Hurricane Irma which struck Florida mid-September 2017.

· After Hurricane Irma passed, you returned, and your boat was gone.

· You searched the bay, searched by airplane, scoured ALL the sites that FWC was using to bring vessels ashore, and handed out flyers to the Officers involved.

· You 'assumed' that the FWC, USCG, and Lloyd's would be searching, --- I assume no official police “theft” report was filed as internet searches on missing/stolen boats provide no results for your boat.

· You had insurance and they did pay the undervalued policy.

· You did not renew or keep current your USCG COD.

· Now you suspect your boat is in another’s possession.

Florida has no salvage law allowing the finder of an abandoned vessel the right of ownership. It is a crime in the state of Florida to take an abandoned vessel without first getting a title to it; doing so is considered theft and could result in fines or even jail time.

· Section 705.103, Florida Statutes, states that a person who finds an abandoned vessel and wants to make claim to it, and ultimately title it, must first report it to a law enforcement officer. The law enforcement agency will collect a fee to conduct an investigation and determine the owner of the vessel. If the vessel is not claimed in the process of the investigation, the law enforcement agency may transfer it to the finder with a bill of sale and evidence of the investigation. The finder would then apply to FLHSMV to have the title put into his name.

· Based on your story and these laws, if your boat is out there, it is still legally yours.

Recommendations – If you really believe your boat is out there somewhere:

Realize you have no current, valid, or legal paperwork to back up your claim of ownership.

· First, renew your COD at NVDC by filing form CG-1258, Application For Initial Issue, Exchange, Or Replacement Of Certificate Of Documentation; Redocumentation. This gives you a current, valid, and legal paperwork to your claim.

· Obtain a letter from your insurance company stating they paid your loss and they have no claim of ownership.

· File an official police report of theft in a Miami police station.

o Include a copy of your current and official USCG COD.
o Include a copy of your insurance company’s official Statement.
o Include a copy of your Florida’s last vessel registration. (It is mandatory for documented vessel to be registered in Florida, if used on Florida waters for longer than 90 days – I assume you have this.)
o Include a notarized statement of facts of your story of loss and futile search.

· Post your loss on every stolen boat website out there – most are free.

· Continue your BOLO on Facebook and social media.

Next, it is assumed based on your story, you suspect your boat is outside of US territories and waters.

Compile a complete certified copy of the police report and all the documents included above. Have them Apostilled by the US State Department. These Apostilled documents should be recognized as legal documents in foreign country with the same force of law they treat their own documents as stipulated by the 1961 Hague Convention Treaty.
If you find your boat in a foreign country, file a local police report with your Apostilled documents as evidence – get a good lawyer and fight.

If other's find flaws in the above or have additional suggestions, chime in.

Best wishes and good hunting, Warren.

Mr. Abbott;

Once again, I would like to thank you for your accurate and most helpful post. As I told you I do have a City of Miami Police Report. Ruth V. was the original owner, from whom I purchased the boat. I will most assuredly follow up with the recommendations you have provided. I truly appreciate the manner in which you provided the help; ie, not castigating the victim, which I have endured ad nauseum. This has been a learning experience and hopefully I will regain possession of my boat. I feel for the person who may have been duped into purchasing a stolen vessel, and perhaps that may be assuaged. Again, I can't thank you enough! Blessings!

Warren Richardson

KC375 · 17-06-2019, 08:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Abbott

Under Recommendations:

Obtain a letter from your insurance company stating they paid your loss and they have no claim of ownership.

This should cover all bases?

Genuine question, why would an insurance company do this? If they have paid for a stolen boat that is possibly recoverable surely they would have an interest in the recovered vessel. Why would they waive that interest with no further information. That doesn’t seem a prudent business move but I’m likely missing something.

valhalla360 · 17-06-2019, 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Abbott

Under Recommendations:

Obtain a letter from your insurance company stating they paid your loss and they have no claim of ownership.

This should cover all bases?

I agree confirmation is in order...just the original premise was questionable.

I don't see insurance companies walking away from a boat with value and since most policies have recovery clauses, giving up ownership claim doesn't get the insurance company out of recovery/disposal costs.

Also, the OP would be smart to make it clear what the situation is. If the payoff was made based on the assumption the boat was swept out to sea and then sunk somewhere unknown...if he manages to reclaim it and doesn't inform the insurance company...if by some twist of fate, the insurance company finds out, this might qualify as insurance fraud.

Joe Abbott · 17-06-2019, 08:23

Another suggestion – state simply how to visually identify your boat.

Most significant difference I noticed in your pictures was two masts painted a dark blue or black color – most sailboats masts are gray (not painted) or painted white.

Modify your BOLO statement to include something of the likes:

Stolen Vessel: "Jade Queen" Hailing Port Name: ???? Engraved in wood mounted on stern.

White topsides with dark blue/green/black stripe. Bottom of hull is XX color.

1983 Vagabound 47, ketch – two sticks – main and mizzen mast with spreaders all painted dark blue or black? Mizzen mast has white radar dome and white canister radar reflector. Has large bowsprit at front and massive davits at stern.