Welding Cable - Any Downsides when used for Starter Motor???

[john manning]

Strange question. Are there any differences apart from two very significant points, tinning and insulation.

The insulation issue is very significant, so if you use welding cable then it is best to put it into a flexible duct or some other form of sleeving.

Welding cable is not a good product for any situation involving vibration and heat. The quality of the wire is poor and its brittleness causes it to break under vibration especially adjacent to crimped lugs. I have found that light crimping backed up by soldering works best to extend its life.

The insulation will be affected by oil and diesel and also hardens due to heating and cooling. The hardening then makes it more susceptible to vibration.

[Jim Cate]

Aside from insulation and tinning, it my understanding that welding cable has a smaller wire count per a given diameter, thus is slightly less flexible.

Mickey, I think you have this backward. Welding cable has very fine strands of wire and is quite flexible... welders need to drag it around into odd places and then have the cable not put torque loads on the stinger, for that makes the somewhat delicate physical control of the rod awkward.

Jim

[Mickeyrouse]

I stand corrected on welding cable stranding.

[Reefmagnet]

Welding cable is very flexible and fatigue resistant by design. The reason why old cable often has broken strands around connections is usually because it gets flexed and pulled to the beejeezus with everyday use in most environments. It also gets hot joins readily because it typically carries currents higher than typical starting or winching currents at high duty cycles that involve repetitive heating and cooling of the joint.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

Welding cable is very flexible and fatigue resistant by design. The reason why old cable often has broken strands around connections is usually because it gets flexed and pulled to the beejeezus with everyday use in most environments. It also gets hot joins readily because it typically carries currents higher than typical starting or winching currents at high duty cycles that involve repetitive heating and cooling of the joint.

It seems to me having a commercial shop doing the crimping would make sense. I don't know many people that have the equipment to do it right on wire that size.

[Chotu]

I’ll confess to having used this my entire life on house banks.

I’ve always sized it up to get even less voltage drop than required wire size. 0/0 is the size I usually use.

In all the decades, I’ve never had the cables corrode. For me, it’s the battery Connector terminals that constantly corroding. Where they meet the battery.

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by Cadence

It seems to me having a commercial shop doing the crimping would make sense. I don't know many people that have the equipment to do it right on wire that size.

Not at all, unless it's a one off.


Mr B described a way of beating down copper water pipe over the end of the cable to make a lug, which is something done even by manufacturers (with a little bit more complex machinery!). You can apply solder with a propane or even acetylene blow torch because the thick copper cables suck away the heat like crazy and (true) welding cable insulation won't (or shouldn't!) melt. There's also connectors that use a copper ferrule and grub screws to attach to the end of the cable. For crimping there's a selection of cheap mechanical or hydraulic crimpers suitable for casual use.



Here's an example of perhaps the cheapest style of a budget crimp tool...

[opusnz]

When I finished welding/building my boat, I cut up the welding cables and used them for my battery and engine alternator and starter cables. Tinned wire is better but I soldered all the crimps and fittings. I guess diesel fuel leaks might attack some types of insulation but you shouldn't really have diesel leaks. If I do bleed my diesel or get fuel on the engine or in the bilge, I normally wash it down.

After more than 28 years, there have been zero problems.

[darylat8750]

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

Not at all, unless it's a one off.


Mr B described a way of beating down copper water pipe over the end of the cable to make a lug, which is something done even by manufacturers (with a little bit more complex machinery!). You can apply solder with a propane or even acetylene blow torch because the thick copper cables suck away the heat like crazy and (true) welding cable insulation won't (or shouldn't!) melt. There's also connectors that use a copper ferrule and grub screws to attach to the end of the cable. For crimping there's a selection of cheap mechanical or hydraulic crimpers suitable for casual use.



Here's an example of perhaps the cheapest style of a budget crimp tool...

This is a terrible solution to building heavy cables. That was all i had available in Mexico and a couple of years later I changed battery set up and built new cables using Collin's recommendations on Marinehowto.com.

https://marinehowto.com/making-your-own-battery-cables/

When taking the old cables off I was able to pull 2 of the old connectors off by hand! When building the old cables I didn't have an anvil or heavy vice to use as a base but I did have a 4 pound hammer as a base and set them with a 3 pound hammer.

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by darylat8750

This is a terrible solution to building heavy cables. That was all i had available in Mexico and a couple of years later I changed battery set up and built new cables using Collin's recommendations on Marinehowto.com.

https://marinehowto.com/making-your-own-battery-cables/

When taking the old cables off I was able to pull 2 of the old connectors off by hand! When building the old cables I didn't have an anvil or heavy vice to use as a base but I did have a 4 pound hammer as a base and set them with a 3 pound hammer.

Agree entirely. I was given something similar about 30 years ago and have not used it once. Instead I've used one of these for many years without too many gripes...

[Mr B]

These are the welding cable battery joins out of my RV,
These are over 7 years old and 6000 Kays in a moving 36 foot diesel RV,
There is very little movement or vibration in the cables in either installation,

The batterys are now in my boat,
The Welding cable battery connections in my boat are the same,

I put anti seize in the copper tube before I hammer them Tite onto the cable,

Because the holder on my welder is constantly being twisted in all directions, The connection only lasts a few months as it gets frayed, Badly,
4 inches gets cut off and the cable is put back in the holder,

This connection is a solid brass connector with grub screws in it and a thin slice of copper to stop the grub screws going thru the the wire,

The connections on the welder last a few months longer, They are bolted onto the welder and get removed from the welder at least once a day for transport,
These bolted connections get dragged from side to side as the day progresses,

If its not marked MARINE and you have not paid 4 times as much for it,
Your boat will Explode, Catch Fire, Sink, Kill you, With out Fail,
Its not Marine,

And yes, That is my diesel fuel line, Filters and pumps running above my Batterys,
Before I put them there, In that locker,
They were bolted on the back of the motor with access only from on the transom,
Standing on my head to change a filter or pump,
My Batterys in my RV, Car, Truck, and Boat, Are rigid and dont move,
The motor in my boat has very little movement as its on rubber blocks,

Being Marked Marine is a good way to extract dollars from your pocket,

If you have Deisel leaks, You have a shonky system, Fix it,

Cheers, Brian,

[stormalong]

There is a better inexpensive alternative to marine grade Anchor brand cable.

When I installed the windlass on my boat almost 30 years ago Anchor 2/0 was about $5 per foot. 2/0 cable for domestic/industrial wiring was $.90 per foot. I needed 90 feet so I bought the domestic/industrial 2/0. Each strand in the cable is AWG 12. It is very stiff and hard to bend and the insulation is tough.

Since running the cable from the circuit breaker at the battery to the solenoid box doesn't have to flex this cable is fine. I pulled the cable through holes drilled through bulkheads and through cabinets. One hole for each cable, not one big hole for the pair. The stiffness of the cable made it hard to install but it only had to be done once. They are held in place about every foot and are parallel about one inch apart. Lugs are crimped and then soldered. I did not put heat shrink around the lugs back then but if I was doing this today I would.

Bottom line: I still have the boat and the cables are still good. I'm on my third windlass but still using the original cable. I would not use this cable to an engine due to the stiffness of the cable and the engine vibration but for my purpose this was a good choice.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Wotname

........

As you can see, the diesel resilience test is now underway and unless it fails before hand, I will continue it for a year.
........

I realised today that I didn't have a base line to compare how well the welding cable insulation will stand up to diesel immersion so I added some insulation off a marine graded 2awg cable to the bottle of diesel (not shown on this picture).

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Wotname

I realised today that I didn't have a base line to compare how well the welding cable insulation will stand up to diesel immersion so I added some insulation off a marine graded 2awg cable to the bottle of diesel (not shown on this picture).

Which plastic(s) is the insulation you are testing?

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Which plastic(s) is the insulation you are testing?

Well I dunno really but I think they are all PVC but dunno what sort.

I have stripped some of the insulation off the Aussie made marine cable along with both inner and outer insulation of the Aussie made welding cable. They are all immersed in diesel.

The idea is to find out if the welding cable is the same as the marine cable w.r.t. diesel resilience.

I'll give it a year max. My gut feeling is there will be no difference but I wait and see.

I haven't bothered to research the specification of the marine cable.