Welding Cable - Any Downsides when used for Starter Motor???

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

I wouldn't use Yanmar construction standards to justify anything! The rubber fuel hoses on my '98 4JH2E aren't visibly marked (they are painted gray....), but just going on size and feel, I am about 95% sure they don't meet USCG requirements for fuel lines. And unlike welding cable, tinned wires, and ABYC standards, those are actually LAW. LOL.

[Dsanduril]

Well, ABYC E-11 says:

The construction of insulated cables and conductors shall conform with the requirements of: UL 1426, Cables for Boats....

...the insulating material temperature rating requirements of:
SAE J378, Marine Engine Wiring, and SAE J1127, Battery Cable, or SAE J1128, Low-Tension Primary Cable.

And UL 1426 says:

The construction and performance details of single-conductor 50-volt cables are outlined in the Society of Automotive Engineers, Inc. Standard for Battery Cable (SAE J1127), Low-Tension Primary Cable (SAE J 1128), and Recommended Practice for Marine-Engine Wiring (SAE J378b).....

...The insulation shall be any of the types having a wet rating in the Standard for Thermoplastic Insulated Wires and Cables (UL 83)...

and UL 83 basically requires PVC insulation in one or more layers. Neither 1426 nor 83 require oil resistance, although they do provide a definition of same and it is optional.

There you have it, full circle. An SAE J1127 welding cable (many are specified that way) with PVC insulation meets the convoluted requirements of the standards - except of course for the markings on the label.

[Cadence]

I love when people reference numbers from one gov., assoc, or whatever that they just googled. GordMay is probably the only one that does it right.

[Dsanduril]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

.... And unlike welding cable, tinned wires, and ABYC standards, those are actually LAW. LOL.

Where, show us the law.

33CFR183 (where fuel hose standards are defined and applied to recreational boats) says:

183.501 Applicability
(a) This subpart applies to all boats that have gasoline engines, except outboard engines for electrical generation or mechanical power for propulsion.

EPA 1060.1:

1060.1
(a) The standards and other requirements in this part 1060 apply to the fuel lines, fuel tanks, couplings and fittings, and fuel caps used or intended to be used in the following categories of new engines and equipment that are fueled with a volatile liquid fuel (such as gasoline, but not including diesel fuel), and to the equipment in which these components are installed, starting with the model years shown in Table 1 to this section:

https://www.uscgboating.org/assets/1...YC.1002.01.pdf

[Dsanduril]

Originally Posted by Cadence

I love when people reference numbers from one gov., assoc, or whatever that they just googled. GordMay is probably the only one that does it right.

If that was to me, well ABYC E-11, UL 1426 and UL 83, and SAE 1127 are all copyright, non-public standards for which one has to pay for access. I do happen to have access to most of those, but I can't post a link to the actual standards, because, well, they're behind a pay wall.

Here's a link where you can purchase E-11:

https://abycinc.org/store/viewproduct.aspx?id=12011421

And 1426/83:

https://www.shopulstandards.com/Prod...6_5_S_20101206

https://www.shopulstandards.com/Prod..._16_S_20170728

And SAE 1127:

https://www.sae.org/standards/conten...obilus-Core_EX

I too appreciate the way Gord provides links in this type of discussion, and I try to do the same when I can, but in this case all the referenced documents that are available online are either a)illegal, or b)out-of-date.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by marshmat

Maybe, but I know what my insurance broker will say. "You could have used the $5.20/ft boat battery cable that's legal and meets the standards, but you used the $3.99/ft welding cable from Princess Auto instead? Was it really worth saving the $48, if it gives the adjuster a reason to deny your $12,000 claim?"


Cutting corners may not come back to bite you right away. But it always comes back to bite you eventually. Maybe you're a mile off a lee shore and the engine won't start because the cable wicked up too much water and corroded. Maybe some bilge oil dissolves the insulation and the bare copper touches an engine mount and the spark starts a fire. Maybe you go to sell the boat and the buyer's surveyor finds the crap wire and now it has to be replaced at your expense before the sale can close.

That’s not the way normal boat insurance works , the whole point of insurance is it insures you against something idiotic that you did ( including hitting rocks clearly marked etc)

Unless there is a specific legal ban on using welding cable ( and given ABYA is voluntary and CE in Europe does not require the boat to remain “ in class “) there is no way insurance can disavow a claim on the basis you lay out.

[Cadence]

( and given ABYA is voluntary and CE in Europe does not require the boat to remain “ in class “) there is no way insurance can disavow a claim on the basis you lay out.
Are they just not recommendations, some probably good and some over kill.

[Compactorguy]

Welding cables are not designed for marine environments. That said I work on waste equipment and my cables are always laying in hydraulic oil and harsh conditions. Except for developing tears in the insulation I have never experienced (30 years) insulation separation except on worn out cables. If you were to use as a starter cable I would add inspecting the cable to your list of monthly to-do's and change out when needed.

I would first contact the following to get the proper cable http://www.marinehardware.net before making the switch

[Jim Cate]

I would first contact the following to get the proper cable http://www.marinehardware.net before making the switch

Do note that the OP is located in Tasmania, and shipping heavy cable is dear and slow and he ain't likely to make that choice.

Otherwise, your experience supports the use of the better grade of welding cable, just as many of the practical, experience-based folks have suggested.

Jim

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Do note that the OP is located in Tasmania, and shipping heavy cable is dear and slow and he ain't likely to make that choice.

Otherwise, your experience supports the use of the better grade of welding cable, just as many of the practical, experience-based folks have suggested.

Jim

BOC is in Tasmania, Or any welding Supply store down there will sell all the sizes in Welding Cables,
Plus all the fittings he Needs,

[Wotname]

Cable was purchased yesterday. The insulation is fairly impressive and complies with The Australian standards quoted upthread. The outer appears to be PVC and the inner may well be.

Size is 70mm2 (~2/0 awg).

As you can see, the diesel resilience test is now underway and unless it fails before hand, I will continue it for a year.

The negative will be have an additional cover of black heat shrink because black welding cable isn't available locally.

[Compass790]

OMG I'm never going on that boat if I ever make it to Tassie!

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by Compass790

OMG I'm never going on that boat if I ever make it to Tassie!

If thar crazy enuff to use welding cable they'll prolly have soldered connections too!!!


Deathtrap!

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Compass790

OMG I'm never going on that boat if I ever make it to Tassie!

Unless you make it quickly the boat will likely have been consumed by righteous flames and consigned to the pit... so hurry on down!

I'm already calling the firies in a kinda preemptive strike. Gotta protect my pal Wottie...

Jim

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Cadence

( and given ABYA is voluntary and CE in Europe does not require the boat to remain “ in class “) there is no way insurance can disavow a claim on the basis you lay out.

Are they just not recommendations, some probably good and some over kill.

In Europe when building a boat it’s the law. After the boat is built , unless classified as a major modifications and done by a professional , there is no obligation to follow the RCD and it’s ISO codes.