Starter issue: starter motor takes several attempts

[Ryban]

System is as follows:

1. Engine is a Beta 14.
2. Batteries are a 12V starter battery in good condition (800 CCA) and 2 x 6V GC2 batteries in series for 230AH (brand new)

I'm looking for a diagnosis based on the following symptoms:

On-starting:
1. Battery banks are combined.
2. Ignition is turned to the start position
3. A "click" is heard, but the starter motor does not turn over.
4. If I return the key to the off position, and back to the start position, the same click is heard, and nothing happens.
5. If I wait 15-30 seconds, and attempt again, the engine starts no problem.

I'm obviously no expert, but it seems to me not to be an issue with the batteries, as the engine starts no problem. In my diesel-engine-ignorant mind, it almost sounds like the starter motor needs a little metaphorical warming up, or perhaps is stuck, and the several start attempts eventually get it going.

What are your ideas?

[Jammer]

The usual cause is that the solenoid switch is shot. I don't know whether the solenoids for the Beta 14 can be purchased separately or if you have to replace the whole starter assembly.


Diagnosis is a matter of checking voltages at the solenoid while it is exhibiting the problem. If you're getting 12v across the solenoid coil, and 12v between the battery and motor terminals, the solenoid is shot.


If the voltage across the solenoid coil is less than 12v, you have a wiring problem.


If you're getting 0v between the battery and motor terminals, measure between the motor terminal and ground. If it's 12v, the armature or brushes in the motor are shot and it will have to be replaced. If it's close to zero, you have a wiring or grounding problem.

[Lepke]

You have a problem in the solenoid or cable connections, neg & pos. Intermittent starter most likely is the solenoid. In the solenoid are two post like contacts that touch a disk. All made of copper. One end of the contact post is connected to the battery cable, the other post connects directly to the starter, and when energized, the disk is moved toward the posts. The 12v passes through the cable post to the disk and then to the other post and the motor. The disks moves slightly each time the starter is energized.
Eventually the post ends and disk become pitted from the high amp flow. The click is heard when badly pitted contacts make contact but don't pass electricity to the starter. What you hear is the electromagnet pulling the disk into contact. The starter eventually works when a less pitted area of the disk aligns with the posts.
If you're handy, you can disassemble the solenoid and file the posts and disk and get like new operation.

[jimbunyard]

Bad or loose ground.

[01kiwijohn]

I pretty much found the same as the others. First check the action at the solenoid though. Sometimes, a sharp tap, with a small hammer or a wrench, or whatever, will cause it to jump into action.
If not the solenoid, and you've got juice at the terminals, I suspect the ground brush in the starter. Some have two supply current brushes but only one ground brush, thus it wears more quickly. I made a temporary repair, which lasted for a couple of months actually, by using a piece of plastic and shimming the brush holder so that the brush spring was able to push the brush onto the commutator before the spring bottomed out on the holder. Ultimately though, I had to rebuild the starter; buring that process, I added a second ground brush and it has never missed a beat since.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Ryban

System is as follows:

1. Engine is a Beta 14.
2. Batteries are a 12V starter battery in good condition (800 CCA) and 2 x 6V GC2 batteries in series for 230AH (brand new)

I'm looking for a diagnosis based on the following symptoms:

On-starting:
1. Battery banks are combined.
2. Ignition is turned to the start position
3. A "click" is heard, but the starter motor does not turn over.
4. If I return the key to the off position, and back to the start position, the same click is heard, and nothing happens.
5. If I wait 15-30 seconds, and attempt again, the engine starts no problem.

I'm obviously no expert, but it seems to me not to be an issue with the batteries, as the engine starts no problem. In my diesel-engine-ignorant mind, it almost sounds like the starter motor needs a little metaphorical warming up, or perhaps is stuck, and the several start attempts eventually get it going.

What are your ideas?

Replace your start solenoid.

[Gaia]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Replace your start solenoid.

Nah, fix it 🤗. if you do not know how, learn. Best to be self sufficient on the water.

Jim

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Lepke

You have a problem in the solenoid or cable connections, neg & pos. Intermittent starter most likely is the solenoid. In the solenoid are two post like contacts that touch a disk. All made of copper. One end of the contact post is connected to the battery cable, the other post connects directly to the starter, and when energized, the disk is moved toward the posts. The 12v passes through the cable post to the disk and then to the other post and the motor. The disks moves slightly each time the starter is energized.
Eventually the post ends and disk become pitted from the high amp flow. The click is heard when badly pitted contacts make contact but don't pass electricity to the starter. What you hear is the electromagnet pulling the disk into contact. The starter eventually works when a less pitted area of the disk aligns with the posts.
If you're handy, you can disassemble the solenoid and file the posts and disk and get like new operation.

I'd make sure they were burnished smooth.

[DenisHeinrichs]

Originally Posted by Lepke

You have a problem in the solenoid or cable connections, neg & pos. Intermittent starter most likely is the solenoid. In the solenoid are two post like contacts that touch a disk. All made of copper. One end of the contact post is connected to the battery cable, the other post connects directly to the starter, and when energized, the disk is moved toward the posts. The 12v passes through the cable post to the disk and then to the other post and the motor. The disks moves slightly each time the starter is energized.
Eventually the post ends and disk become pitted from the high amp flow. The click is heard when badly pitted contacts make contact but don't pass electricity to the starter. What you hear is the electromagnet pulling the disk into contact. The starter eventually works when a less pitted area of the disk aligns with the posts.
If you're handy, you can disassemble the solenoid and file the posts and disk and get like new operation.

I must say, that is a really informative little animated gif you attached.


Thanks!


Pitty it doesn't show up in my reply...

[S/V Illusion]

I don't know why but people often begin by picking an often expensive and sometimes needless option as the first thing to do.

Before you make any snap judgment about the solenoid or anything else, remove and clean every connection in the circuit to ensure this isn't a simple voltage drop problem. Then check the voltage getting to the relay.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

I don't know why but people often begin by picking an often expensive and sometimes needless option as the first thing to do.

Before you make any snap judgment about the solenoid or anything else, remove and clean every connection in the circuit to ensure this isn't a simple voltage drop problem. Then check the voltage getting to the relay.

Good advise, maybe some of us just make that assumption.

[kmacdonald]

Here is a video on how to fix it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwokxzjlYcQ

You can get a repair kit for the Denso starters or solenoid. If you need to start the engine you can also by-pass the solenoid with a heavy jumper. (battery cable)

[roland stockham]

Can also be a problem with one of the motor windings. When they fail there is not enough torque to turn the engine but can be enough to just nudge the motor. Repeatedly turning the key nudges it round to a good winding. If it is that then likely sometimes it starts first go but next time causes problems. A word of warning. You don't have to spend $900 ON a replacement one from beta but don't go for the cheapo $100 ones either. If you shop around you can get an OEM one for 3-400. If you are not in a rush I have a genuine OEM one for sale but not till spring.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Here is a video on how to fix it:

You can get a repair kit for the Denso starters or solenoid. If you need to start the engine you can also by-pass the solenoid with a heavy jumper. (battery cable)

Good info.: thumb:

[kmacdonald]

You need two of these: https://www.maniacelectricmotors.com/6790904.html

I'm guessing it's a Denso starter. The plunger is optional and will work with just the new contacts.