Welder on board?

[Lake-Effect]

Last year I bought a 80A inverter stick welder (120vac, 20A) when on sale, to learn with. Long-term goal is to learn to do nice welds on stainless steel.

But i can't imagine that the average cruiser would do much welding while off the dock, or that the DC->AC->DC welder scenario would be efficient enough from the average cruiser's battery bank/inverter setup.

The DC-powered Ready Welder looks like a more reasonable approach to off-dock arc welding for the average cruiser.

I've seen portable oxy-acetylene rigs with small bottles for oxygen and acetylene; does anyone have experience using something like that on a cruising boat?

Again, unless you're a welding professional and/or have a metal boat, I don't see that much benefit to having a welding rig that could be used away from the dock. I can't think of an emergency repair that could only be a weld. Welding also seems a tad risky on a flammable boat.

[Sailormantx]

Millermatic Passport mig welder. Welds just about anything and has a decent duty cycle. The newer models can do aluminum and more. It's not much larger than a sewing machine in a case and just as heavy. I carry solid and flux core wire for steel, and 308,316 and 309L wire for stainless. And CO2 and Trimix gas bottles for the welder. I also have an oxy acetylene kit with the small bottles but it's very expensive to refill so I seldom use it.
At around 22 amps the Miller draws too much for my inverter but the generator handles it with no problem.
I bought all these metal working tools to rebuild my boat and kept them around afterwards as there's always repairs and modifications happening as well as the occasional helping fellow cruisers.

[stainless guy]

Learning to weld on critical items is a bad idea
Welding aluminum takes alot of time to get it right, or its a natural ability quickly picked up by a select few

Small inverter machines such as the miller maxtron 150 are about as small as they get while still being usefull
The miller dyanasty 200 or now 210 is an excellent small acdc machine. The electronics in mine have been completely soaked and still work just fine that said
I am undecided if i will bring a machine with me unless i end up with a metal boat
I own a small business that processes about 150,000lbs of stainless and aluminum annually with 4 tig machines 200-400amp and two wire fed machines

[Pauls]

Lots of posts here about TIG and MIG welders, and if you're going to weld aluminum you're going to need one or the other. If your welding needs are limited to steel and stainless I'd heartily recommend a Zena. They produce a 150 amp and 200 amp alternator designed for use as a welder. I built a 42' steel hull boat with a 150 amp Zena. The welding quality is as good as any welder I've ever run. The same alternator is a very good high output alternator for your boat. You just use a different regulator. With one of these mounted as your alternator all you need to do to weld is change connections to a welding regulator. It's a good company, made in the USA, decent prices.

[CatNewBee]

I agree, you rarerly need it while sailing on the oceans, but if you are cruising full time, you eventually stay at one place for repairs or refits and can do small projects yourself.

With TIG welding you need a sheltered environment with no wind. Unlike stick welding, TIG is quite safe, no hot sprinkles around. More like soldering. For larger projects you can use it on the dock or on the dry on shore power and borrow a larger inert gas bottle.

I think, it is good to have all tools you need with you when living on board in remote places.

[Reefmagnet]

Let me add my $0.02. You do not want a wire feed welder unless you own a steel boat that is going to need lots of work. A good, inverter stick welder with scratch TIG (or upmarket HF start option) will be the most versatile unit in the smallest package and you can easily obtain a variety of welding rods at cheap enough prices that will keep well enough on a boat. The only caveat is if welding alloy steels, stick electrodes labelled as "low hydrogen" need baking prior to use whereas TIG and wire feed processes are naturally "low hydrogen" (hydrogen is the element that causes cracking when welding alloy steels).



Unfortunately aluminum is a whole 'nother story because you need HF AC TIG or MIG with either a spool or push-pull gun to avoid ending up in the loony bin. Both units are relatively specialised and are expensive and need a degree of skill (and bottles of Argon) to properly utilise. All is not lost though, as aluminium electrodes are available in stick form so can be carried on board (carefully - the flux is like dried salt and easily damaged) for emergency repairs. Might even be good enough for structural work, but no one has used them for this purpose since the 60's.

[Auspicious]

I learned to weld at Long Beach Naval Shipyard over 40 years ago. I don't carry a welder - for structural failures underway I've been able to use Dyneema or some other synthetic to limp into port. Once there I've been able to find welding equipment to borrow or rent. I don't do aluminum any more as I'm out of practice.

The hardest thing to find has been grinding and polishing supplies. Sometimes that has to wait for the right port.

[hpeer]

OK so I have 2 steel boats. I weld but am not a welder. At best I’m a novice that has done a few jobs for myself.

IMHO if you are outside the USA forget using anything with gas. Where I am in Canada the don’t sell and refill tanks, they lease tanks. Down here in the Caribbean it’s hard to find the gasses, people have enough trouble with propane.

That said I carry a small inverted stick welder on each boat for emergency repairs. Harbor Freight, and it seems to be one of the few things they did right. They were about $100 each.

I have a Honda 2000 on each boat, no diesel generator. The welders do fairly OK with shore power, I think they run up to 90 amps. But with the Honda you need to limit the current and/or duty cycle. I have a few pounds of normal steel stick and a couple of pounds of some stainless rod, all very thin diameter.

Last year I had a small bad spot in the deck I wanted to fill, just a hole smaller than a dime, so I broke out the welder. 3/16” thick deck. It took me a while to “git ‘er done” and it will win no beauty prizes but it’s water tight and strong enough. Some years ago I did weld my arch to the deck with this same unit using shore power and that worked OK.

If I was on a glass boat I would skip it. Even on a steel boat unless you have some significant source of AC it’s pretty limited. OTOH the costs are pretty low.

Last year I bought a small Millermatic stick/MiG/TIG machine does my personal use in Canada where I have a shed to do projects. I’ve made some things for the boats including a 2 piece aluminum tiller and SS handrails. I also replaced some plate (MIG) on my steel boat there. I’m finding TIG very difficult to master.

I get my abrasives from here.

https://www.lehighvalleyabrasives.com/

The plate on my small boat is 10ga. I COULD NOT find any 10ga on Newfoundland, the best I could do was a 4x8 sheet from Toronto. I ended up buy a 2x4 piece from an online outfit that shipped from Kentucky. In Newfoundland they kept trying to sell me 11 ga. I know there is not much difference, but if I’m replating I want to go back full thickness, damnit, and not 3/16”. And there was no 220 AC in the yard, period.

The moral is, yes you can get it done most anywhere but the hassles can take all the fun out of it.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

A good, inverter stick welder with scratch TIG (or upmarket HF start option) will be the most versatile unit in the smallest package and you can easily obtain a variety of welding rods at cheap enough prices that will keep well enough on a boat.
…
aluminium electrodes are available in stick form so can be carried on board (carefully - the flux is like dried salt and easily damaged) for emergency repairs. Might even be good enough for structural work, but no one has used them for this purpose since the 60's.

Yes! 60's level technology sounds perfect, even earlier as long as the results are strong structurally.

>> far from shore power in remote primitive off-grid locations

> inverter TIG / stick welder with HF start option

Could you (or anyone) please link to a couple good quality examples of such?

And could the Zena "weldernator" idea, at 150-200A DC output, be adapted to do anything like this?

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Yes! 60's level technology sounds perfect, even earlier as long as the results are strong structurally.

>> far from shore power in remote primitive off-grid locations

> inverter TIG / stick welder with HF start option

Could you (or anyone) please link to a couple good quality examples of such?

And could the Zena "weldernator" idea, at 150-200A DC output, be adapted to do anything like this?

I worked as an welding specialist/engineer for Lincoln Electric for many years early in my career, so I would definitely recommend them! But any of the big name brands are fine depending on where you are located. As for HF start TIG, this isn't that important for a DC only unit (i.e. non aluminium capable) as even the most basic units would have "lift start" capability which is fine for small jobs. The disadvantage is that the tungsten will wear down quicker and a starting "pit" gets left on the work piece. Many "prosumer" small inverters often have the HF start either standard or as an option that can be fitted. Another advantage of having HF start means that you can now switch the welding current on and off via a switch on the torch which makes it so much easier to keep gas flowing at the end of the weld when welding stainless steel. If you want to weld aluminium with TIG, you need an AC/DC machine. These start to go up in $$$ for decent quality units. No matter what you get, a variable thumb or foot operated current control option when TIG welding will improve your experience with the process immensely (and I'd say it's mandatory for aluminium and highly desirable for any tube work).



Not sure I have confidence in charging alternator based units, but I've not kept pace with advances in technology with them. Welding machines are not just a power source - they are designed to provide specific output curves from load to no load that will improve the quality of weld they produce. An alternator based system may not have the same refinements and this might limit them in some applications.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

As for HF start TIG, this isn't that important for a DC only unit (i.e. non aluminium capable)

I was not aware that DC-only means can't work with aluminum? Is that what you're saying?

> a starting "pit" gets left on the work piece

as stated, I don't give a fig about finish appearance, as long as structural strength is not affected.

And yes, only working with aluminum, once past the early learning / practice stage.

> If you want to weld aluminium with TIG, you need an AC/DC machine.

I have no preference for the technology used, only care about the result.

Rather, the more primitive the better, unless it just can't be made to get to the desired result.

Still looking for links to example units good for this use case. Not caring about brand specifically, so from 3-4 different makers would be ideal.

Just want to start looking at specs, get some idea of the **type** of unit is best.

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by john61ct

I was not aware that DC-only means can't work with aluminum? Is that what you're saying?

> a starting "pit" gets left on the work piece

as stated, I don't give a fig about finish appearance, as long as structural strength is not affected.

And yes, only working with aluminum, once past the early learning / practice stage.

> If you want to weld aluminium with TIG, you need an AC/DC machine.

I have no preference for the technology used, only care about the result.

Rather, the more primitive the better, unless it just can't be made to get to the desired result.

Still looking for links to example units good for this use case. Not caring about brand specifically, so from 3-4 different makers would be ideal.

Just want to start looking at specs, get some idea of the **type** of unit is best.

The DC is in relation to TIG welding. MIG welding is only ever done using DC current. In theory it's possible to TIG weld aluminium with DC, but in practice it's not a sensible approach.


For TIG work, I'd get a "lift TIG" as the minimum spec. I own this style of unit and can do anything with it I need, except aluminium (although I do have the rods, and they work but they sure don't look purty!).



Basic Stick/Lift TIG:
https://www.esabna.com/us/en/product...-cc/es-95i.cfm


https://www.kemppi.com/en-US/offerin...ly/minarc-evo/


AC/DC TIG (with stick capability):
https://www.millerwelds.com/equipmen...-welder-m00337

https://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-u...ncolnElectric)


Multiprocess:
https://www.millerwelds.com/equipmen...-welder-m00361

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

The DC is in relation to TIG welding. MIG welding is only ever done using DC current. In theory it's possible to TIG weld aluminium with DC, but in practice it's not a sensible approach.

For TIG work, I'd get a "lift TIG" as the minimum spec. I own this style of unit and can do anything with it I need, except aluminium (although I do have the rods, and they work but they sure don't look purty!).

Well again, I'm **only** talking about aluminum, so I'd appreciate simplifying things by sticking to that.

Are TIG and MIG the only options?

Nothing "primitive tech" with sticks, using propane as a heat source would work? Are "rods" and sticks the same?

Thanks for those links so far. . .

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Well again, I'm **only** talking about aluminum, so I'd appreciate simplifying things by sticking to that.

Are TIG and MIG the only options?

Nothing "primitive tech" with sticks, using propane as a heat source would work? Are "rods" and sticks the same?

Thanks for those links so far. . .

I've been loose with terms. Arc welding electrodes are commonly referred to as "sticks" or "rods", Oxy/fuel and Tig filler rods can also be shortened to "rods" just to add to the confusion.



For practical purpose, MIG and TIG is it. If you're not a trained welder, MIG is the easiest to use. Forget gas brazing and welding. Too many cons and just way too hard for a novice. Stick (or shielded metal arc welding, to be technical) is fine, though the rods are a little "sticky" to strike (and that darn'd flux knocks off so easily) but end result is a bit ordinary looking and probably best left for small jobs and repairs. Ultimately though, it depends on what it is exactly that you plan to weld.

[john61ct]

OK, so is "stick welding" aka "shielded metal arc welding" a subset of TIG or MIG? or v/v?

I've been clear that even butt-ugly is not an issue, much less "ordinary looking", so never mind about aesthetics.

Also that I'm talking structural, load-bearing big beams etc.

I assume anything suitable for that would also be fine for "small jobs and repairs"?

Really appreciate your patience. . .