Victron Quattro/Honda 2200W genny, how much real charge current for 24V bank?

[CaptainRivet]

How much Ampere does the Honda 2200W Genny deliver in reality via Victron Quattro 5000W Inverter/Charger to charge a Lithium 24V house bank?


If the solar or wind gen doesn't deliver any current due to no sun/wind/broken/any other reason I wanna use the honda Genny as charging backup as I have eg. a fully electric galley. Or when I run the watermaker it uses 600-700W, so 1300W left to charge...

To calculate how long it takes to charge how many amps do the batteries really get? A 24V 400AH Li bank will take a lot current in, so limit is the quattro or genny. Theory the 2200W honda Eu20i delivers continious 2000W with 230V to Quattro, Quattro transforms 230V into 24 V means 230V/24V= 83 Amp charge current in theory, substract 10% loss of the Victron 5000W quattro it is still 75 Amp... theoretically.
Can someone provide real numbers?
if you run 12V and can give some real numbers thats welcome too.

[smac999]

50-60a at 24v is probably more real.

The 2200w is not continuous rated. (At least the 2000 is not. That one is only good for 40-50a)

I don’t understand why you are using an expensive battery bank and inverter but trying to use a cheap, dangerous, and illegal gen. Leave your house gen at home and install a marine gen. Sounds like you have done everything else correct so far. Why stop now.

[Morrissey]

I have a Quattro 12/3000/120, and a large AGM house bank. When plugging the Honda 2000 into the Quattro, via the shorepower socket, I kept encountering overload condition on the Honda. For a time I limited the charge current in the Quattro as a workaround, but that was not a desirable long term solution since plugging in real shorepower required the charge current limitation to be changed back again. I can't recall the current limit, but it was way, way less than theory calcs suggested it should be. i just experimented and found a setting that worked by trial and error.

My longer term solution was to get a second Honda 2000 and their parallel cables. After all, Honda's are pretty cheap, easy to move and store. It has worked a treat - I can get the Quattro charging at full capacity, and the Honda's are not screaming the heads off. They do increase to full rpm if I happen to turn on an AC load (Nespresso machine or microwave) and don't overload, so it seems a reasonable solution.

Starting from scratch I might have gone with a Honda 3000 unit. Not as portable but it should be just right for a Quattro 12/3000/120. But it would not cope with the extra AC loads I mentioned above.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Morrissey

I have a Quattro 12/3000/120, and a large AGM house bank. When plugging the Honda 2000 into the Quattro, via the shorepower socket, I kept encountering overload condition on the Honda. For a time I limited the charge current in the Quattro as a workaround, but that was not a desirable long term solution since plugging in real shorepower required the charge current limitation to be changed back again. I can't recall the current limit, but it was way, way less than theory calcs suggested it should be. i just experimented and found a setting that worked by trial and error.. . .

The current limiter is a basic control of the Multipluses and Quattros -- on the Digital Multicontroller it is a knob. How are you changing the current limit on yours? I just twist the knob, and I change it every time I use a different power source. My generator is good for 60 amps at 230v; shore power around here varies from 6 to 18 amps. I change this every time I switch between generator and shore power or between different shore power connections; it's no trouble, and that's exactly what this control was designed for.



The answer to the OP's issue is to just twist the knob and turn down the current limiter on the Quattro until the generator is happy. As others have pointed out, the little Honda is a light duty device which will not last long if you drive it at full power, even full continuous power, for long periods. I would turn the current down until the generator is putting out 50% or 60% of max output, unless you're really dying to do it faster. That ought to give you 40 amps or so (at 26v).



A small light duty portable generator is not an ideal charge source for a large lithium bank. A diesel generator would be far happier. But I guess the OP knows that. The portable will work but he will need to be patient and not overload it.

[GordMay]

From the Data Sheet ➥ https://www.victronenergy.com/upload...A-15kVA-EN.pdf
“PowerControl –Dealing with limited generator, shore side or grid power
The Quattro is a very powerful battery charger. It will therefore draw a lot of current from the generator or shore sidesupply (16A per 5kVA Quattro at 230VAC). A current limit can be set on each AC input. The Quattro will then take account of other AC loads and use whatever is spare for charging, thus preventing the generator or mains supply from being overloaded.”

[Morrissey]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

The current limiter is a basic control of the Multipluses and Quattros -- on the Digital Multicontroller it is a knob. How are you changing the current limit on yours? I just twist the knob, and I change it every time I use a different power source. My generator is good for 60 amps at 230v; shore power around here varies from 6 to 18 amps. I change this every time I switch between generator and shore power or between different shore power connections; it's no trouble, and that's exactly what this control was designed for.

In my case, no knobs to twiddle on the Quattro or the VE.Net Blue Power Panel. It was a case of going through the menu tree on the latter. Ok to do it from time to time, but a real PITA to do it often.

Yes, I agree with your comments re: Honda capacity. One of them can charge at about 80A, at 13-14 volts, and it won't overload but is at its practical limit.

[CaptainRivet]

Thanks for your inputs. So around 50A on 24V permanent it can safely do. Due to Honda's test a tank runs it for 10-11H, that means 5l fuel tank gives me for sure 12kwh ...fits well and will charge a 50% discharged 11kwh bank in 5h.

To make clear I have a 24V 120A Alternator= conservative/safely limited to 60A on the DC DC limiter , solar with 40A on bad day or 60A at 24V on a good and 24V/10-20A of Wind gen.
So enough charge power from 3 independent sources.

The 220V watermaker can run of the inverter and directly of the honda too (thats his main purpose but will be hardly used with this oversized LI bank) if battery are down and I need water.
The honda 20ui costs 900Euro and well tested to work relaibly on a ton of sailboats around the world, a comparable 2KW diesel genny min 3000 and high quality more likely 5000 with installing hassles&cost. for a backup not acceptable for me.

The Honda is also "just" the 4th backup when eg engine breakes (no alternator) and no wind/sun.

Have a 20hp outboard on the dingy and a bracket on the stern of the sailboat to put the 20hp outboard supported by a fuel line to an 20l internal mobile fuel tank (also 2nd tank for the dingy if it brakes and plan to be able to contect as additional fuel tank for the honda=+40h runtime of the honda). emergency setup for propulsion/steering and eg the honda gen as charge backup to keep plotter/VHF&co running and produce water, even directly if the electrics are blown eg by a lightening strike.

[alansmith]

I have a 30 foot trimaran. No room to put an expensive heavy diesel generator. Not that I don’t see their practically. So, Rivet, I get what u r doing. First time I heard a poster call a Honda an illegal generator. In what respect, me asks?

[FlyingScot]

Honda is rated at 1800 watts continuous.
1500 watts is 58 amps @ 26v (charging voltage). 1500 watts is still pretty loud on a Honda 2.2. Thus you might want to limit to about 11-1200 watts (45 amps @ 26v)

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot

Honda is rated at 1800 watts continuous.
1500 watts is 58 amps @ 26v (charging voltage). 1500 watts is still pretty loud on a Honda 2.2. Thus you might want to limit to about 11-1200 watts (45 amps @ 26v)

Sounds good!
Most cases I will have to run it full power I have other problems then a noisy Gen...and 57db is not really loud... Cranck stereo up a bit and problem solved :-)

[a64pilot]

The 2000 will charge 100 amps into 12V so of course 50 into 24V, but it’s busting a gut to do so, it will actually make 103 amps at 14V assuming a 90% efficient charger, running at max rated power.
The 2200 ought to do 60A into 24V, but it would probably last longer and be a lot quieter at 50 amps.
The Honda will give more than rated power, but will probably last longer making rated power, rated continuous power for the 2000 is 13.3 amps at 120V, which should be 1600W
You can’t overload a Honda, it won’t let you, it will either disconnect itself, or pop its circuit breaker.

Nothing wrong with a Honda, yes you will certainly charge faster with a bigger generator, but it will weigh hundreds of pounds more and cost thousands of dollars more.

I have a small diesel built in generator but often run my Honda when the extra amps aren’t needed and to save hours on the bigger one.
Changing oil on a Honda is a less than 5 min job done from the comfort of sitting in the cockpit.
Bigger gen requires me to climb down into the Lazarette, not difficult, but it’s not comfortable down there, plus I have to unload the Lazarette.

Just be careful of carbon monoxide, buy an alarm or two.

[basssears]

Read the specs on your Quattro, you can only limit incoming current so much. I discovered this with a 48/5000/70-100/100 , minimum I could set the incoming current to was (IIRC) ~16a... actually the menu choices included lower amperage but that didn't do anything, it still tried to draw 16a, that meant that an EU2200 couldn't keep up and would bog down and die.

It is also recommended to not run a generator at more than 80% of its rated, continuous output if you want it to not get bogged down by occasional hiccups.

So while limiting incoming current can help when you have a smaller genny, there's only so much it will do. For me I went with an EG2800i, 2,500 watt continuous and that, along with using the current limiting settings to 16.6a (80% of 2,500w continuous is 2,000w or 16.6a), has worked well for me. (I'm not getting into portable-generators-on-boats discussion, FWIW everything described above is actually a land based off grid cabin).

-- Bass

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Morrissey

In my case, no knobs to twiddle on the Quattro or the VE.Net Blue Power Panel. It was a case of going through the menu tree on the latter. Ok to do it from time to time, but a real PITA to do it often.

Yes, I agree with your comments re: Honda capacity. One of them can charge at about 80A, at 13-14 volts, and it won't overload but is at its practical limit.

Well, you are needlessly crippling the Quattro, which hardly makes sense without that knob. I think you can use the Digital Multicontroller and the BP Panel together. The Digital Multicontroller gives you direct and immediate control over the basic functions, and lights to show what the unit is doing.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by basssears

Read the specs on your Quattro, you can only limit incoming current so much. I discovered this with a 48/5000/70-100/100 , minimum I could set the incoming current to was (IIRC) ~16a... actually the menu choices included lower amperage but that didn't do anything, it still tried to draw 16a, that meant that an EU2200 couldn't keep up and would bog down and die.

It is also recommended to not run a generator at more than 80% of its rated, continuous output if you want it to not get bogged down by occasional hiccups.

So while limiting incoming current can help when you have a smaller genny, there's only so much it will do. For me I went with an EG2800i, 2,500 watt continuous and that, along with using the current limiting settings to 16.6a (80% of 2,500w continuous is 2,000w or 16.6a), has worked well for me. (I'm not getting into portable-generators-on-boats discussion, FWIW everything described above is actually a land based off grid cabin).

-- Bass

If you control it with the Digital Multicontroller, the current can be limited down to I think 4.5 amps @230v, and you can set it to power boost any loads which exceed that. Very very useful function for a small generator.


At least the Multiplus limits down to 4.5 amps; I would guess that the Quattro is the same.

[basssears]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Well, you are needlessly crippling the Quattro, which hardly makes sense without that knob. I think you can use the Digital Multicontroller and the BP Panel together. The Digital Multicontroller gives you direct and immediate control over the basic functions, and lights to show what the unit is doing.

Other option is to buy the Victron dongle and combined with a regular CAT5 cable you can use their PC software to control everything on the Quattro's (and others I assume?). It's not the cleanest software out there, and it does silly things (for example, you can turn the current limiting to whatever value you want even if that value is not a legal value for that Quattro to use), but it gives you all the control you'd want.