The post-shorepower era

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by Paul L

This statement gets made a lot on CF, or one close to it. I don't think it is very accurate when dealing with full time cruisers. We haven't been plugged in for near 8 months. Solar, engine charge, genset all contribute as needed to getting to 100%, along with good conservation. We get to an honest 100% 3+ times a week, usually on solar only.

Yes it used to be true a lot more than it is now, as long as you have a big dino juice charge source you can run up to 80-85% early in the morning, then reasonable solar will get you to 100% Full over the next 4-6 hours.

Some can't manage that, and many more don't care, but it's just not that hard if you make it a priority.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Paul L

This statement gets made a lot on CF, or one close to it. I don't think it is very accurate when dealing with full time cruisers. We haven't been plugged in for near 8 months. Solar, engine charge, genset all contribute as needed to getting to 100%, along with good conservation. We get to an honest 100% 3+ times a week, usually on solar only.

This is true, it gets back to that "cruisers full" VS 100% full. I just accept my batteries rarely, if ever get to plugged in marina 100%full.

In the last eight years I'm guessing I've been plugged in for six mths total (maybe). Solar and the little Honda for when the sun don't shine gets me by. It all comes down to consumption. Generally my acceptance charge is under 1% by noon, I'm happy enough with that.

There's some guys here that know alot about batteries and charging, a real lot, I'm not one of those guys, BUT there's alot out here that know very little.

A cruiser I know who's a electrician just destroyed his battery bank because his needs massively out weigh his capacity to charge, it's interesting to watch.

It's not hard to live grid free and have reasonably healthy batteries, you don't need to know absolutely everything about batteries and charging, but you do need to understand your system, both imputed and output and basic battery chemistry.

BTW, I've learnt alot about batteries and charging on Cf over the years.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Yes it used to be true a lot more than it is now, as long as you have a big dino juice charge source you can run up to 80-85% early in the morning, then reasonable solar will get you to 100% Full over the next 4-6 hours.

Some can't manage that, and many more don't care, but it's just not that hard if you make it a priority.

I think one of the problems John is the Conservative nature of some solar regs for the topping up, of course this is assuming your getting enough bulk in early in the day. My blueskys are frustrating, limited to 14.2v. On my previous boat I could adjust my morningstar parameters to get the most out of them.

[Island Time O25]

Admittedly I only use the boat early May to late October, but it does have a Dickerson diesel heater (never used by me in 8 seasons). Installed 440W solar, a 2000W inverter and have not once needed shore power. I still have old tech bulbs but LEDs are on my spring to do list. And those, other than the fridge, are probably the only energy hogs on the boat. 3 or 4 12v fans are seldom used as I am on the mooring. The fridge draws 4-5 amps, so on sunny days the solars are enough to keep the batteries topped up. And on rainy days I am usually off the boat so the fridge gets shut down. After the bulbs the fridge will probably be my next project to reduce the energy use. Not sure if I want to get into a major re-do as it works fine but a better insulation scheme of the top opening may be the solution. The builder went overboard with the fridge size and it's about 12 cub ft.

[carstenb]

last time we plugged in was in Inverness, scotland 18 months ago. our solar charges us very well - 2 x 335 watt panels.

we have a 1600 watt inverter that we use to heat our 40 liter hot water tank once per day and otherwise use any 220V things in the boat as we please.

The solar charges our boat to 100% usually, if things are very overcast or there is fog we crank up the engine and let our 160AH generator do the heavy work for an hour or two then let the solar do the rest.

[sailorboy1]

Having had never plugged into shore power for 8 years I can say, it's nice to plug and feel all free from the power boogeyman once in a while!

[Suijin]

Jim nailed it with “it depends”. It all comes down to your energy demands and what you have to generate power.

Going forward, the primary question is how much advance in generation and storage technologies we’re going to see. Appliances and devices are not likely to get much more efficient than they already are, barring significant breakthroughs.

So the future, as to whether we enter a time when shorepower is needed or not for someone with “X” demands, is going to hinge largely on the future efficiency of solar and battery technologies. Is that going to change significantly? Probably, given the money and research being thrown at it.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Generally my acceptance charge is under 1% by noon, I'm happy enough with that.

So you should be, no advantage to shore power if you're doing that regularly on the hook.

To clarify for others, .01C, or 1A per 100AH bank capacity trailing current at Absorb. Only after that point should you drop to Float.

That is how to define 100% Full, some mfg define endAmps as .005C or .015C, or no longer dropping after an hour.

[Island Time O25]

Speaking of power storage. I am still puzzled as to why a sailboats' led keel has not been used as a workable/safe battery to date. Any engineers out there who have the explanation?

[alctel]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

Speaking of power storage. I am still puzzled as to why a sailboats' led keel has not been used as a workable/safe battery to date. Any engineers out there who have the explanation?

One of the reasons I imagine is it's really hard to change out after you ruin it

[thinwater]

Except for AC, no problem. Everything else on a cruising boat should be able to run without a cord. Not much good for cruising, otherwise.

When I added solar to my current boat (no AC) I though about shore charging, and then decided it was pointless. Also one less corrosion concern.

On my last boat, unless I was running the AC I didn't plug in. No point.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

Speaking of power storage. I am still puzzled as to why a sailboats' led keel has not been used as a workable/safe battery to date. Any engineers out there who have the explanation?

Nice theoretical concept, but the container would of course need to be 100% guaranteed waterproof and easy to swap out every few years.

But the main reason in practice is that the battery market is very capital intensive, geared for standard units targeted to the major markets.

What you're talking about would require bespoke once-off production, just not economically practical.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Nice theoretical concept, but the container would of course need to be 100% guaranteed waterproof and easy to swap out every few years.

But the main reason in practice is that the battery market is very capital intensive, geared for standard units targeted to the major markets.

What you're talking about would require bespoke once-off production, just not economically practical.

IIRC, Steve Dashew approached this idea in his Sundeer production boats. Not by using the keel ballast in the battery bank, but by having the battery compartment immediately above the ballast, well below the WL. Again, IIRC he used giant 2 volt industrial cells and had a deck hatch right above so that one could use a halyard or other lifting tackle to get them in and out.

Just one of the excellent, practical innovations that his boats sported.

Jim

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by daletournier

I think one of the problems John is the Conservative nature of some solar regs for the topping up, of course this is assuming your getting enough bulk in early in the day. My blueskys are frustrating, limited to 14.2v. On my previous boat I could adjust my morningstar parameters to get the most out of them.

Not sure what BlueSky controller you have, but my pair of controllers with the IPN remote is completely settable to volt, temp adjustment and amps to full, etc.

[john61ct]

Yes Blue Sky need the IPN-Pro Remote or the UCM module, like dongles for the older Victrons.

The BS 3000i is one of the very few (only? ) controller perfect for LFP, can turn Float off completely.