Honda 2000 built in.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by warrior 90

THXs, I didn´t know

Did not want to touch the subject but since You are expert on subject.
Well, carburetor not required for fuel supply.
Could fuel supply with fuel vapor be as safe as with propane ?

a carburetor is where the fuel is vaporized and mixed with air at the optimum for ignition .

Now with injected gas cars the fuel is injected in the intake where it is still regulated for optimum burn. Gas controls power output by regulating the air. Whereas diesel does it by regulating fuel .
They do make propane conversion kits for the Honda but for us its best to keep it on gasoline . The energy density is the most important factor a boat . Unless you carry a lot of propane . ( believe it or not gasoline is safer on a boat than propane is . )
both are safe with proper install and precautions.

[warrior 90]

Originally Posted by newhaul

a carburetor is where the fuel is vaporized and mixed with air at the optimum for ignition .

Now with injected gas cars the fuel is injected in the intake where it is still regulated for optimum burn. Gas controls power output by regulating the air. Whereas diesel does it by regulating fuel .
They do make propane conversion kits for the Honda but for us its best to keep it on gasoline . The energy density is the most important factor a boat . Unless you carry a lot of propane . ( believe it or not gasoline is safer on a boat than propane is . )
both are safe with proper install and precautions.

Hate the propane bottle story and try to stay away as much as posible.
Just mentioned it because in case of fuel vapors the fuel is easy to come by.

[warrior 90]

Comming back to our Honda 2000

My earlier question was ...what qualifies the Kohler gasoline generator for Marine certification and what is our Honda 2000 missing for the same ?

Of course leaving aside the installation to Marine standards ?

One thing is the mountain of docs to get this approval and the other is the actual safety on board.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by warrior 90

Comming back to our Honda 2000

My earlier question was ...what qualifies the Kohler gasoline generator for Marine certification and what is our Honda 2000 missing for the same ?

Of course leaving aside the installation to Marine standards ?

One thing is the mountain of docs to get this approval and the other is the actual safety on board.

Kohler is ignition protected, meaning it doesn't produce sparking conditions that could ignite explosive fuel vapors.

I forget if Kohler is a carb or fuel injection, but it's also set up to prevent the release of fuel and fuel vapors.

It's SIGNIFICANTLY more safe than an eu2000 below deck.

[warrior 90]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Kohler is ignition protected, meaning it doesn't produce sparking conditions that could ignite explosive fuel vapors.

I forget if Kohler is a carb or fuel injection, but it's also set up to prevent the release of fuel and fuel vapors.

It's SIGNIFICANTLY more safe than an eu2000 below deck.

OK, here is the first part: IGNITION PROTECTION
"Ignition Protected"Â* What does it mean?

Nº2 spec says: Throttle-body electronic fuel injected
Starter motor . .Bendix automotive type
Strange, automotive starter is spark protected ?
I know it is a closed motor housing
AGain ENGINE FEATURES: Meets Coast Guard safety standards for electrical systems and gasoline fuel systems (33CFR183)

Well, we don´t need a fuel pump and carburetor has flame arrester
Can anybody translate the ignition/spark protection to a cheap and easy fix ?

[Franziska]

Most important is to run strong, explosion proof extracion fans for a few minutes before starting.
That will remove petrol fumes in the compartment before starting when installed properly.
Best would be a switch that prevents starting without running these beforehand.

If that is done properly you run a much smaller risk from sparks by the starter motor.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by warrior 90

OK, here is the first part: IGNITION PROTECTION
"Ignition Protected"Â* What does it mean?

Nº2 spec says: Throttle-body electronic fuel injected
Starter motor . .Bendix automotive type
Strange, automotive starter is spark protected ?
I know it is a closed motor housing
AGain ENGINE FEATURES: Meets Coast Guard safety standards for electrical systems and gasoline fuel systems (33CFR183)

Well, we don´t need a fuel pump and carburetor has flame arrester
Can anybody translate the ignition/spark protection to a cheap and easy fix ?

At this point are we talking about running it outside in a box, or below decks? I'm lost on that part. The regs are for below decks installation pretty much.

[a64pilot]

The Honda is so easy to start, and requires the choke to start, what’s the desire for an electric starter, especially when it requires removal of the pull starter.
Has me wondering, do you have a Honda now?

There is more than one way to achieve ignition protection, one way is a simple screen wire, flame won’t penetrate a screen wire, a simple screen is used with a Brunson burner for example.

But it’s not so much achieving it, it’s having it certified as such that is tough.

[Franziska]

Actually the only reason in my eyes why one might want to install AND run a Honda or similar under deck or from within a box is the wish to run it as backup power source also in bad weather in case the battery fails for example.

The 2kw Honda is a lot lighter and less expensive than any of the other dedicated marine gensets.

When I was young and foolish I did just strap a 1kw Honda genset into the portside hull of a small cat and attached a gastight exhaust hose to it.
Refueling was done with screw top plastic bottles which had each a little less content than the Hondas reservoir could take.
Start cord was lengthened and mounted at a convenient pull location.
For service I took the genset out.
Easypeasy.

Sideffect, perfect place to dry wet gear :-)

Worked fine but in hindsight was perhaps a bit risky as well. Yes, it was against the law (read rules) but it worked :-)

That cat had a stinky hull (stores, genset,...) and a clean hull (2bunks, watertank, small camping gaz cooker). For a small cat with minimum accommodation that was the near perfect solution.

Sailed her about 15000 nautical miles that way.

[Scout 30]

Cautionary tale: When I bought my Honda 2000 companion model it seemed to run a little rough with the idle speed uneven. This was with a brand new non-ethanol fuel. I called the warranty dept & they said it was probably because there was not enough load. The next weekend I fired it up on my dock & plugged my boat into it. I turned on the water heater so there was a good load. I monitored it for about 10 minutes & it still seemed to run rough. I decided to see if letting it run would fix it. I left it to go to my garage and when I came back about 10 minutes later it was leaking gas on the dock. I immediately took it to the nearest Honda Dealer/Service Facility for what I figured would be a repair under warranty. The repairman cleaned the brand new carburetor & charged me for the service. Funny thing, when I asked him if he saw anything in the carburetor he said whatever had caused the problem was so small it was invisible. I took it home & it ran fine.

Since then it's run rough one other time. That time I got on YouTube for instructions & then cleaned the carb myself. Worked great & no problems since. Lesson for me is if it's missing don't screw around, clean the carb. I also only run mine on our swim platform in case it ever starts dumping fuel again.

[a64pilot]

If you Google Honda generator recall, you’ll find this
https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2019/am...d-burn-hazards

If you continue looking you’ll find over time there have been quite a few recalls about fuel leakage

Seems there have been three recalls due to fuel leakage since 2012 of the whole portable generator line.
https://powerequipment.honda.com/sup...ls-and-updates

[warrior 90]

Originally Posted by Chotu

At this point are we talking about running it outside in a box, or below decks? I'm lost on that part. The regs are for below decks installation pretty much.

Till now stage Nº 3 PORTABLE HONDA 2000 is WITH ELECTRIC START and refers to a flat surface with all the connections to support the generator except the fuel supply.

PORTABLE is anything that is IN LEGAL TERMS .......Page 16 Quote 238
NOT electrically hardwired, fuel plumbed, hard mounted and that You can not take at any given time of the boat.

Till now we have not put any limits to the location of this flat surface even so I suggested.

Page 21 Quote 312 at the end I wrote......
before we get lost in the jungle
Let´s try if we can find a definition for "INSIDE" that makes the hungry happy


All Right, here is the Coast Guard Standard that comes with the Kohler beast

Coast Guard 33CFR183
@
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text...-183/subpart-I

Manufacturer Requirements (§§ 183.410 - 183.460)

§ 183.410 Ignition protection.
§ 183.415 Grounding.
§ 183.420 Batteries.
§ 183.425 Conductors: General.
§ 183.430 Conductors in circuits of less than 50 volts.
§ 183.435 Conductors in circuits of 50 volts or more.
§ 183.440 Secondary circuits of ignition systems.
§ 183.445 Conductors: Protection.
§ 183.455 Overcurrent protection: General.
§ 183.460 Overcurrent protection: Special applications.

§ 183.410 Ignition protection.
(a) Each electrical component must not ignite a propane gas and air mixture that is 4.25 to 5.25 percent propane gas by volume surrounding the electrical component when it is operated at each of its manufacturer rated voltages and current loadings, unless it is isolated from gasoline fuel sources, such as engines, and valves, connections, or other fittings in vent lines, fill lines, distribution lines or on fuel tanks, in accordance with paragraph (b) of this section.

(b) An electrical component is isolated from a gasoline fuel source if:

(1) A bulkhead that meets the requirements of paragraph (c) of this section is between the electrical component and the gasoline fuel source;

(2) The electrical component is:

(i) Lower than the gasoline fuel source and a means is provided to prevent fuel and fuel vapors that may leak from the gasoline fuel source from becoming exposed to the electrical component; or

(ii) Higher than the gasoline fuel source and a deck or other enclosure is between it and the gasoline fuel source; or

(3) The space between the electrical component and the gasoline fuel source is at least two feet and the space is open to the atmosphere.

(c) Each bulkhead required by paragraph (b)(1) of this section must:

(1) Separate the electrical component from the gasoline fuel source and extend both vertically and horizontally the distance of the open space between the fuel source and the ignition source;

(2) Resist a water level that is 12 inches high or one-third of the maximum height of the bulkhead, whichever is less, without seepage of more than one-quarter fluid ounce of fresh water per hour; and

(3) Have no opening located higher than 12 inches or one-third the maximum height of the bulkhead, whichever is less, unless the opening is used for the passage of conductors, piping, ventilation ducts, mechanical equipment, and similar items, or doors, hatches, and access panels, and the maximum annular space around each item or door, hatch or access panel must not be more than one-quarter inch.

This refers to propane and is all I can find...... Is there more to it ?

https://ecfr.io/Title-33/se33.2.183_15
33 CFR §183.5 Incorporation by reference.

SAE J378 Marine Engine Wiring—1984 = §183.430
SAE J557 High Tension Ignition Cable—1968 = §183.440
SAE J1127 Battery Cable—1980 = §183.430
SAE J1128 Low Tension Primary Cable—1975 = §183.430
SAE J1527DEC85 Marine Fuel Hoses—1985 = §183.540
UL 1114 Marine (USCG Type A) Flexible Fuel Line Hose—1987= §183.540
UL 1128 Marine Blowers—1977 = §183.610
UL 1426 Cables for Boats—1987 = §183.435

Yes, all part of Coast Guard 33CFR 183

UL 1128 = 33CFR §183.540
UL Standard for Safety Marine Blowers

UL 1128
@
https://standards.globalspec.com/std/896005/UL%201128
September 25, 1997
UL Standard for Safety Marine Blowers
A description is not available for this item

Well, I tried. What a bunch of BS. Looks like everybody is bending the rules according to his own interests and for decoration:biggrin.

BEST BET: Keep it PORTABLE and use COMMON SENSE

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

If you Google Honda generator recall, you’ll find this
https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2019/am...d-burn-hazards

If you continue looking you’ll find over time there have been quite a few recalls about fuel leakage

Seems there have been three recalls due to fuel leakage since 2012 of the whole portable generator line.
https://powerequipment.honda.com/sup...ls-and-updates

No doubt a huge issue. Mine once belched up 1/4 cup of fuel or so.

Luckily it's mounted outside in free air.

[warrior 90]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

If you Google Honda generator recall, you’ll find this
https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2019/am...d-burn-hazards

If you continue looking you’ll find over time there have been quite a few recalls about fuel leakage

Seems there have been three recalls due to fuel leakage since 2012 of the whole portable generator line.
https://powerequipment.honda.com/sup...ls-and-updates

Definitely worth to run GEN for a while to make sure everything is like it is supposed to run.
IMO the carburetor and fuel quality are the weakest part.
I think a fuel filter is a good idear when using a bigger tank
No matter what You do the Gasoline/Ethanol Blends will suck moisture

[Pablo Cruise]

Originally Posted by daletournier

I think the Honda generator and its equivalents are just brilliant, really hard to justify the cost of diesel built in genset when a little Honda can fill the needs of many boaters like me.

Just curious, has anyone built one of these into their boat taking into consideration the petrol (gas) issues ,or just mounted one permanently in the cockpit area ? any pictures?

I saw this neat little setup on Google.

Attachment 205378

Words of caution about using Honda Generators aboard boats. Please reconsider the use of this product aboard boats. They are inherently UNSAFE. Both electrically and physically. The carbon monoxide issue may be very difficult, if not impossible to mitigate. The electrical issue is dangerous as well. They are not designed to be used aboard boats. Contact Honda and you will and learn they DO NOT support the use of their generators in a marine environment. My friend, Jim Healy, is very knowledgeable about all things electrical in a marine environment. He has a web site which explains these issues very clearly. He also writes about electrical issues for the MTOA, Marine Trawler Owners Association. If any would like to have a link to his article about this issue please contact me directly.
The fact that this product is inexpensive does not mean you should risk your life just to save a few dollars.
Paul Weakley email: pwseapa45@gmail.com