Charging problems after changes made to accommodate a Balmar regulator.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by sailinglegend

I think you may need to read around a bit more - or talk to Balmar about why increasing the minimum bulk time from 18 mins to 120 mins cured your problem.

18 mins does seem very short but as I understand it that duration is considerably extended by the field threshold setting - when it is needed. So if the batteries are flat then it automatically stays in bulk for longer. But if the batteries are fully charged - after being on shore power all night - then whilst motoring out of the marina the alternator bulk voltage will be reached very quickly and then stay there in absorption for a further 120 mins. That's 4 hours at absorption voltage when the batteries are already fully charged. This is "over-charging" - maintaining too high a voltage for the state of charge of the batteries. This causes excessive gassing which is fatal for sealed batteries. You can't overcharge batteries with too high a current - they take what they want.

GILow, and sailinglegend and others reading this interesting thread,

I have been suggesting this for many years, even in posts Maine Sail has either developed or contributed to.

I've read the Balmar documentation until I almost had it memorized. It says their algorithm checks and rechecks and keeps checking until parameters are met.

If the Bv doesn't meet the Cv (and assuming you have the right battery sense location, i.e., not the AO), it keeps plugging away until the Bv = Cv and then and only then changes to the next stage.

That's why I have never bothered with reprogramming the time(s) on my MC-612, and I also use SEM instead of AM.

Thanks, sailinglegend. Much appreciated, someone else who read the manual!

[GILow]

Well, my hat is off to anyone who has read the Balmar manual AND made sense of it.

I’ve read it over and over, often with Main Sail’s explanations open on the other IPad and I still understand only a fraction of what they are trying to say.

It doesn’t help that they appear to have taken it apon themselves to invent a whole new range of terminology to describe battery states that were already very well described in existing parlance.

Frankly, I think they are a total crock and have invented the language in an attempt to make their product sound more impressive.

I’m just glad I don’t own the regulator in question because I would feel very uncomfortable with my lack of understanding. As it is, I’m frustrated enough by my inability to assist good friends with their purchase.

But give me a Victron solar regulator.... well, those I think I understand.

[wholybee]

I'll say it now. I hate my Balmar regulator, and reading this makes me hate it more. IMHO no charger should even have a minimum bulk time. To be clear, now if you leave the dock with your batteries fully charged, you are going to first bulk charge them for 2 hours, then absorb them for however long that is set, when it needs to stay in float.

I ruined a flooded battery because of this, during several days of multiple short motor trips, that bulk time added up.

After that, I set my bulk time to the minimum 6 minutes. It was after that I noticed similar symptoms to the OP, and found that disconnecting the temp sensor resolved it. I can only conclude that the Balmar is an example of poor 1980's tech trying to be smart and not doing a very good job of it. I won't repeat the rant I made in another thread about how ridiculous it is that the brand new just released this year model Balmar uses the same programming technique as the old model.

I'll never buy another Balmar regulator again, and can't recommend them, as there are better options out there.

[waterman46]

I have no financial interest in Balmar regulators or any Balmar products. But I think there is a lot of misunderstanding in the last few posts that can easily be corrected by reading the Balmar 614 manual. It clearly states that with the factory defaults set for AGM batteries, the bulk charge maximum voltage is only 14.1V, and the default time for that is 18 minutes.

No AGM or FLA battery in good health will be adversely affected by charging at 14.1 for a few hours. On the rare occasion where you might start up your engine 4 times a day and not ever use any 12V power with the engine off, you might accumulate 72 minutes of charging at 14.1V. This will not harm a lead-acid battery, but if you don't like that, just program the bulk voltage and/or the time lower.


The default absorption voltage is only 13.9V. This is quite a safe voltage for several hours of charging. The feature, new to the 614 vs. the 612, is that the field current to maintain the bulk voltage and the absorption voltage is monitored and when it reduces to a preset value then the next mode is triggered.

I believe the manual is quite clear and is not confusing. I do think it's easy to make mistakes in pushing the right switches for setting the program values. Perhaps that is the cause for most of the poor results.


As an aside, the Balmar method using field current to determine when to switch from bulk to absorption and to float, is flawed. Triggering can be falsely delayed since any 12V appliances, especially refrigeration or A/C that draw lots of steady 12V current, can fool the Balmar into thinking that all this current is going into the battery so it will maintain 13.9V for longer than actually needed by the battery. The problem is the Balmar monitors the field current rather than using an input from a current shunt monitoring true battery charge current. It continues to amaze me that Balmar persists in this method when actually the circuit design would be much easier if instead the battery current were monitored.

Adding battery current monitoring would be easy for the user if Balmar designed it in. You already have to install the battery temperature monitor and the wires could be bundled together in one jacket.

[sailinglegend]

Originally Posted by waterman46

I have no financial interest in Balmar regulators or any Balmar products. But I think there is a lot of misunderstanding in the last few posts that can easily be corrected by reading the Balmar 614 manual. It clearly states that with the factory defaults set for AGM batteries, the bulk charge maximum voltage is only 14.1V, and the default time for that is 18 minutes.

No AGM or FLA battery in good health will be adversely affected by charging at 14.1 for a few hours......

I'm afraid there's a lot of misunderstanding in your post on how ALL chargers work - or should work.

No charger of any kind should be set to the default values for the battery type, especially AGMs which can be confused with GELs, which are around 14.1v. The Bulk and float voltages should be set to the battery maker's value as there are many different brands that recommend 14.4v to 14.7v for Bulk and 13.2v to 13.7v for Float.

Measuring the actually current into the battery is the perfect solution but only very expensive chargers do that.