General Info: Purchase Advice: Do I Need Heat?

[JimInSoCal]

Hi all, new here and considering the purchase of a new Lagoon 40 that a local dealer has as a stock boat.

Unusually (as best I can tell), they ordered it without a genset, A/C or perhaps most importantly, heat.

And based on that, my question is this - I'd actually rather add solar and extra batteries and not deal with a generator if it's avoidable, so I'm otherwise fine with that, and it's not often hot enough here to want A/C (I very rarely need it even on land), but I'm concerned about cold when it gets down into the 50s (often) or 40s at night (less so but enough to take into consideration), and the average water temp gets down to 60 here compared to 68ish in the summer.

I don't plan to move aboard anytime soon, but do certainly plan to spend nights on board for a week at a time or more when tootling down to San Diego or out to Catalina, etc., and if I'm going to freeze my tail off without heat installed, I want to make allowances for that up front.

At what temps are folks finding they need to use diesel, electric, or other heaters to keep the boat warm enough for comfortable sleep overnight? I'm kind of a hot sleeper (I usually tend to have the AC in hotel rooms at 68), so I might like it cooler than some other folks, but there's obviously a limit.

Any and all thoughts appreciated!

[Stu Jackson]

I lived and sailed and anchored often in the SF Bay area from the late 70s to 2016 when I sailed/moved up to BC Canada. I found that a catalytic heater was sufficient for heat in my C34 during the winter months in SF, and I sailed and anchored out year round. Of course, heat here is required (but I don't have any and my seasons are shorter compared to my friends on similar size boats who have heat - April/October vs my June/September). A friend who sailed down to Mexico from Vancouver on his C34 remarked that he was glad to have his heat (diesel - forget whether hydronic or air) all the way down to San Diego!


If you're asking the question at all (and you are!) I recommend you get diesel heat. Hydronic also gets you better zoning and hot water.


Your boat, you choice.

[Kettlewell]

It really depends on the individuals. We lived in Maine for some years and have cruised there a lot on a small 32-foot cat. We never had heat and we didn't really need it during the normal sailing season of June-September. I would have wanted heat earlier or later in the season. But, we also had a small oven and on cold evenings we would bake something, which warmed up the boat nicely. It is cold enough in Maine in the summer so we didn't need to keep drinks in the fridge. Just put them in the bilge since the water runs in the 50s in the summer if you're Downeast, and days can be quite cool with fog.

[shimari]

The aircon units are usually heat pumps so you get aircon and heat with one unit.

There are pretty good DC (Mabru) or inverter (Frigomar) based units now. Our 16K BTU Frigomar usually only draws around 700 watts. At max it draws about a KW, but it is seldom at max.

For a catamaran, you'll likely need three units. One for each hull, and then one for the salon.

Also, all of these units have a dehumidify mode which is very helpful depending on the weather conditions.

Our last boat had aircon, but we could only use it at the dock as we didn't have a generator. We needed it at the dock. We didn't need it on the hook usually.

[CrispyCringle]

Where you sail depends on what you need (want). Sounds like you are somewhere around the LA SoCal area. Same as me. I have AC/Heat on our boat. Havnt ever needed the AC in SoCal, but I use the heat in the mornings sometimes in winter when it gets in the 40's. You wont be able to use it all the time unless you've got some pretty good energy production, of it burns diesel. But around here you dont need it all the time.

If you are purchasing new and plan on spending most of your time in SoCal and cruising the islands you will very rarely need heat or AC. Its much cheaper to just dress for the occasion. I would think the money would be better spent on solar and battery upgrades for when you want to get Starlink, etc.

[thinwater]

You're spending how much on a boat without heat, when you expect nighttime temps in the 40s? Not even a guy living in a cardboard box would understand that math. Would you buy a car without heat?

I dislike reverse cycle because you need either a dock or a generator. Use either diesel or propane. Also, reverse cycle is pretty useless if you ever travel anywhere cold (subfreezing--it must be winterized and will be OOS). Separate heat and AC.

Get the heat. Obviously. If you don't use it all the time that's OK. I'm a cold sleeper too (set the thermostat at 64F at night), but I like a warm cabin. For heavens sake, you splurged on a good sized cat. Don't be silly.

[TBW]

only place colder than san francisco is london
HEAT; talk to ITR

[Phyrcooler]

Partially depends on you. I don’t like to be cold… and I don’t like to sit around bundled up when I’m relaxing. So, YES… I use heat! Since like many (most) SoCal sailors… we day sail and overnight at the dock, it’s easy to use a space heater. It should be easy enough to close off the owners hull (in owner’s version), or close the cabin door in the charter/4-cabin boat at night. However closing off the salon from one or both hulls may be difficult. That said… heat rises… so maybe it will work fine!

If you are planning to frequent anchorages, then you may want to consider either installing a diesel heater, or simpler, use a portable propane (with proper precautions! - next post by the internet safety hall monitors) to take the chill off in the mornings. That’s what I do.

Because of our temperate climate… you are correct that neither heat nor A/C is an absolute must. For me, I DO need a little heat. But I look at an installed marine A/C unit as just one more system to maintain and break down! As such, my current boat does not have… and we haven’t been left wanting.

My last boat had 2 marine A/C. (Powerboat with generator. It had cruised Mexico where it was valued). But years ago I had swore while repairing it one day, that my next boat wouldn’t have one since I really didn’t need it in SoCal. Neptune heard me of course and rewarded me with multiple HOT, muggy, wind-less days that made me briefly thankful that we had AC! Then the condensate tray plugged up and soaked the entire owners cabin carpet. That all said… I’ve had current boat for almost 5 years without A/C and have been fine.

So… long winded way of saying - yes… you can absolutely get by without marine A/C units in SoCal. As long as you remember that occasionally Mother Nature advises otherwise.

[Chris Cringle]

We lived aboard in Ventura, California for eight years. Sometimes in the winter it would get so cold that the dew would freeze on the docks. We had a diesel heater on board but seldom used it. We found that a terra-cotta flowerpot placed upside down on a galley range burner with a moderate flame under it and a small fan directed at it kept the whole boat comfortably warm. Or we could just light the kerosene trawler lamp and even with the flame turned down ver low, the boat would be toasty on the coldest nights.

[CrispyCringle]

Originally Posted by Chris Cringle

We lived aboard in Ventura, California for eight years. Sometimes in the winter it would get so cold that the dew would freeze on the docks. We had a diesel heater on board but seldom used it. We found that a terra-cotta flowerpot placed upside down on a galley range burner with a moderate flame under it and a small fan directed at it kept the whole boat comfortably warm. Or we could just light the kerosene trawler lamp and even with the flame turned down ver low, the boat would be toasty on the coldest nights.

Interesting idea

[Senojev]

Not in your part of the country but do experience lows in the 40s even in early and late summer. Lacking a genset, reverse cycle is not an option for you. I highly recommend diesel hydronic heat since it will also provide hot water even in the summer when you don’t need heat. There are a number of suppliers from the low end Chinese heater to ITR. Both Espar and Webasto fall in the middle and each have their advocates.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by CrispyCringle

Interesting idea

Not unless you like moisture in the boat and breathing exhaust. And then there is CO poisoning.


It's about as good an idea as smoking. Sorry if that is harsh, but really.

[SV Confianza]

If you’re trying to forgo the genset, I wrote a whole post on what options and what you can expect from AirCon/reverse cycle heaters off batteries, based off our tests and experiences: https://www.clevermariner.com/post/c...-from-the-dock

I would say that if you regularly need heat, it will be challenging just on solar. Just on the edge of possible, depending on your setup.

Diesel heat is probably the way to go.

[Kettlewell]

If you have a dock space with electricity just use a couple of small portable electric heaters when needed. One of these keeps my monohull cozy down to freezing even when hauled out on land. I lived aboard (in the water) over several winters in New England using two of these. Dry and safe too.

[JimInSoCal]

Thank you so much everyone for all the responses! I can't say I'm shocked at the variety of opinion here, but a ton of useful perspective.