440: Lagoon 440 Weight, Height, Flybridge

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by colemj

20-22kt winds (their statement) is not a tropical storm.

Yes, that was funny. Beaufort force 6, and the low end of it at that, is described as 'a strong breeze.'

[JerryF]

Etienne,

See eBay auction # 220273698661 to see this Lagoon 440.

JerryF (: (:

[AndyT]

Originally Posted by JerryF

Etienne,

See eBay auction # 220273698661 to see this Lagoon 440.

JerryF (: (:

Thanks
Looks cool , I am not so sure about the hybrid option seems it sounds nice but may reflect with allot of maintenance problems ? and adds allot of weight to a heavy boat .
what do you think ?

[Adaero]

This boat has been on the market for a long time so I think the Ebay approach is a last resort. I remember seeing this 440 up for sale when I was looking at the end of last year.

[AndyT]

thanks Adero.

What do you think about the hybrid option ?
regards Andy

[Adaero]

Originally Posted by AndyT

thanks Adaero.

What do you think about the hybrid option ?
regards Andy

It's the only 440 I have heard of with this system and it's not the same as the 420 so I wouldn't have a clue. I could be wrong but this could be the reason why it's been on the market a while?

[JerryF]

AndyT,

I used Google and found that the Lagoon 440 on eBay started for sale at $650,000 about a year or more ago and now it's reduced to $499,000. My opinion is that nobody wants electric. Academically we all could discuss the pros and cons but to me, practically speaking, it could be a nightmare of problems.

If I bought it I would want to convert it back to two 40HP diesels, remove the small generator and keep the 17.5KW generator. My mantra is that you can never have to much electrical power in a cruising cat.

The cost to convert would probably be $100,000 so the most I would pay is $350,000 and the owner probably would never go that low.

[freetime]

Originally Posted by JerryF

AndyT,

I used Google and found that the Lagoon 440 on eBay started for sale at $650,000 about a year or more ago and now it's reduced to $499,000. My opinion is that nobody wants electric. Academically we all could discuss the pros and cons but to me, practically speaking, it could be a nightmare of problems.

If I bought it I would want to convert it back to two 40HP diesels, remove the small generator and keep the 17.5KW generator. My mantra is that you can never have to much electrical power in a cruising cat.

The cost to convert would probably be $100,000 so the most I would pay is $350,000 and the owner probably would never go that low.

It´s a used electric privilege on the market to. For sale one year if i remember right. yachtworld.

[Jeannius]

Originally Posted by freetime

It´s a used electric privilege on the market to. For sale one year if i remember right. yachtworld.

It's actually nearer 3 years. No one wants to risk a Solomon based electric boat as there has been a lot of changes at the company. I wouldn't touch one with someone else's bargepole.

[AndyT]

Thanks guys
it seems the hybrid is a breakthrough thinking but scary to be the first to try
the system has to be verified and than maybe it will be the one !
even in cars it has not broken the barier .

[Octopus]

Originally Posted by Jeannius

It's actually nearer 3 years. No one wants to risk a Solomon based electric boat as there has been a lot of changes at the company. I wouldn't touch one with someone else's bargepole.

Why this fear of hybrid diesel-electric propulsion? These two unsold cats with Solomon drives on them strike me as a bargain.
1. The propulsion system is just a small element of what is, after all, a sailboat.
2. If the system is working when you buy it, the prospect of it failing is probably no greater than diesel propulsion and may be considerably less.
3. If the current owners thought the electric propulsion was such a liability they would retrofit diesel propulsion themselves to secure a sale. I cannot see it costing as much as $100,000 myself.
4. It should be possible to cure any fault by replacing faulty components like for like, just as you would with diesel propulsion. It is quite likely to be easier.
5. Maintenance should be quicker easier and cheaper for a hybrid. Only one diesel engine, rather than (potentially) three. Access to the genset is likely to be easier and parts more easy to obtain.
6. Hybrid electric propulsion should be more reliable than diesel. The electric motors are bullet proof industrial units that often operate continuously in hostile environments for tens of thousands of hours without maintenance. The genset to power them are very robust and highly efficient units that are much more reliable, quieter and more economical than marine diesel engines, which have to operate across a broader range of power demands. The genset and electric motors are cheap and easy to repair or replace, because they are typically from high volume producers. It is only the specialized control circuitry that may be difficult to repair or replace and this is likely to be solid-state (i.e. highly reliable). In one year's continuous use, covering 12000 miles, we have had no problems with our hybrid diesel-electric system.

Modern cruising catamarans are complicated beasts with a complicated set of interacting systems. Why fear an unfamiliar propulsion system any more than the unfamiliar complexity of say a watermaker, or navigation systems, or the 12VDC electrical system? We've had plenty of problems with other systems, but none with the hybrid diesel-electric propulsion system.


Chris
Octopus, L420 Hybrid, Hull 52
Isle of Arran, Scotland

[Jeannius]

Chris

I don't have a problem with hybrid systems per se, just with the Solomon based boats. I know Solomon appear to be likely to survive now but that hasn't always been the case over the last few years.

I am well aware of the potential for hybrids to be more reliable and require less maintenance but I would want two generators as I like redundancy in unreliable components so would lose some of the lower-maintenance benefit.

However if you look at hybrid cars they are, in reality, no more fuel efficient than a pure diesel setup. They are also more complicated and probably over whole-life, more polluting.

[Leonard Family]

We chartered the Lagoon 500 in the BVI in April of '08. The raised flybridge was a great feature on the boat, for our purpose. However, with blue water circumnavigation as a goal with our next boat, the flybridge is a deal killer.

At anchor, we hit the end of a storm, so we anchored a couple of nights in heavy wind, the added windage due to the flybridge did not seam to be a problem. There is no doubt that when sailing, motoring into a slip, or just sitting an anchor watching the sun set, the large seat in the flybridge is the best seat in the house.

Having a cat now, we often entertain with a large group of non-sailors. I wish our current boat had the option to have all the sail controls out of the entertainment area of the boat. (Obviously, a very different goal than circumnavigating.)

I actually really liked the raised flybridge for most applications. The other major downside is that the boom is really high up. It is great to be able to stand on the a 10 foot by 15 foot flat surface with the boom at your knees, dealing with the sail. Not an option with the raised flybridge.

We have some photos of the Lagoon 500 flybridge on our profile.

Scott

[freetime]

Originally Posted by Leonard Family

We have some photos of the Lagoon 500 flybridge on our profile.

Scott

Does not work, atleast on my computer.

[Leonard Family]

Originally Posted by freetime

Does not work, atleast on my computer.

The photos are large, so you need to actually click on the little square with the "?" in it then the picture will load.

Scott