450: Just signed on a new 450s!

[davedindubai]

Another positive I never thought about before I bought a water maker.... it's so soft! Never felt healthier or had softer skin. It's not an issue for me but the Mrs says it's great for her hair too. Plus cleaning glass leaves no streaks.

[Bean Counter]

Originally Posted by tuskie

Plenty on the internet, all right! But most is 99.9% BS. I haven't read or heard anything that has convinced this old scientifically educated skeptic that RO water needs remineralisation. But that's just me. I'm sure that its not a harmfull practice. Whether town water needs filtration or chemical modification depends upon the individual town water quality and purity as well as your own belief system regarding fluoride etc. As far as health goes, the most common injurious outcome is bacterial contamination from water filters not being cleaned or cartridges replaced.

Do you agree that RO water has a PH of around 6? (some say 5). Now I am not going to go out and buy an expensive meter to prove it, but there is enough credible sources out there to say this is the case. If so it is slightly acidic. The main reason we mineralise it is not for health reasons, it is to lessen corrosion impacts on metals in the plumbing system. Apart from premature part failure eg water heater element, the corroded metals can release possible contaminants into the system. I understand this is why town water is kept alkaline. Also as a by product , only in our view, remineralised RO tastes better than straight RO which is what we drank for a year before.. I appreciate juice, beer etc have acidic PH too, so its not going to kill you.

As noted we run marina water through a filter, some of the green slime that our filter has trapped would make you puke, so when in a strange port we always use it. The one time a couple of months back I forgot to use the filter (East Coast USA) we got a stink in our lines that needed a bleach dose to remove, and bleach doesn't do your system much good either.

[Bean Counter]

Tuskie now you have set me on the trail...
this makes interesting scientific reading
http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_...entschap12.pdf

[Bean Counter]

I think I will start a new thread so as not to stuff this one

[tuskie]

Originally Posted by Bean Counter

Tuskie now you have set me on the trail...
this makes interesting scientific reading
http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_...entschap12.pdf

Thanks Bean Counter. Interesting read.

I'll post on new thread, but with regard to your points raised here.
Firstly, our RO water has a TDS of (usually) around 300-350 ppm and a pH of 6 to 6.5. I use a cheap roughly calibrated TDS meter and swimming pool test strips, so I would swear by the accuracy, but it's "ball park correct". The TDS is well under the WHO standard for drinking water of 500 ppm but it is not "low mineral water" as discussed in the paper that you linked. The paper's authors are considering possible health effects of much purer (lower TDS) water.

Secondly, pH values on their own can be misleading. It is very easy to change the pH of very pure water, up or down. Contaminants or impurities of all types tend to "buffer" the water ie. help it resist pH change. Either way, mild acidity or alkalinity is probably nothing to worry about. You'll notice the WHO drinking water standards don't include pH, or for that matter chlorine.

An interesting topic but I worry more about the quality of my rum, my deteriorated sails and the skin cancer risk when sailing my neighbour's Outremer.

[Integra]

Originally Posted by sailingforfun

We purchased a new 2015 L450, so Lagoon may have addressed these problems since. If not, you will need to address them.

1) If you purchase the Code 0 make sure you have backing plates installed under the d-rings toward the stern that the blocks will attach to. If not, the fiber glass is guaranteed to crack around the d-ring.

2) Disconnect the Lagoon installed bilge alarm and install a high water alarm and connect the bilge alarm to it. Otherwise when you run you A/C the discharged water will set off the installed alarm every 20 minutes and it will drive you crazy. The A/C water drains into the bilge.

Personnel option to think about.

1) Install a tricolor on top of the mast. The Lagoon installed deck lights ruin your night vision.

2) We installed the outside ice maker and it is completely inefficient. It's faster to make ice in trays in the salon freezer. Or buy ice locally and store it in the freezer.

3) In the owners version we chose the sofa version. In hindsight, we should have gone with the extra storage option. We rarely use the sofa because we are always storing stuff on it. The sofa looks better, but in practice you don't use it much.


4) Something to think about. Being from the US we went with the 110v. We have sailed from Les Sable d'Olonne to Costa Rica and have only plugged into 110v once (St Lucia). We had a 220v converter installed, just
in case, but we use it all the time. In hindsight, I would have gone with 220v and saved the $10,000 and space on the transformer.

Saying all of that we love our 450F and would buy another one.

Hi Sailing for Fun,

We have just bought a 2015 Lagoon 450 and your suggestions are incredibly helpful, thank you.

Is this the type of mast light you're recommending?

https://www.piratescave.co.uk/aqua-s...nchor-light.ir

The survey identified the issues aircon causes with the bilge alarm, and the d-rings are already stress cracked - spot on!

Sadly we already have the ice maker and sofa, but at least I have 220v.

Many thanks,

Jason

[davedindubai]

Hi Integra,

Here's the light I opted for but looks very similar to your link anyway.
https://www.bluemarinestore.com/opto...igation-light/

It turns on automatically should you be ashore for sunset cocktails.

I've not changed the bilge alarms yet as we don't have AC so other than when our aft steps shower hose split, our bilges remain dry. (Always remember to turn off at the valve or you'll empty a water tank into the bilges).

We also love the 450 and are finding it the perfect boat for us.

[Integra]

Hi Dave,

That light looks much better than the one I found - so I'll order it instead!

Thanks for your response - so pleased to hear you're enjoying the 450. We are having to wait six months before we can start using it, but very excited.

Will remember the tip about the water tank.

[danielamartindm]

You've chosen a great platform. When the most extreme conditions present, seamanship prevails over choice of mono vs. multi hull IMHO. Resist the urge to customize before learning what customizations make sense for your sailing life. Fair winds, and following seas.

[sidetracks]

Hi All

As a newbie to this forum, I would first like to thank Dave for starting this post and all who participated. It has been of great help to us in putting together a wish list and question some items that are factory fitted by Lagoon.

My wife and I signed up at the Cannes boat show and put a deposit down on a 450S owners version. Its production will start in Nov this year and scheduled for delivery in March 2018.
Our broker did great work in arranging this and said that we have until the end of Oct to make our final decisions on what Lagoon will supply.

This is our first boat and we plan to live aboard and sail where the winds takes us.
So, we want to ensure as much as possible that the equipment available to us is correct. We would love to have as much Solar as possible.

Below is a list of the Items to be researched in more detail. I would appreciate your views and experiences. Pros v Cons.

1. Electric heads v Manual

2. Cushions supplied by Lagoon or outsource

3. What are the best solar panels and number required to meet our daily needs
(we will have all the electric comforts of home onboard)

4. Gel batteries v Lithium (3 Gel 140apm + 2nd 40Amp charger on Lagoon list)
( Electrical circuit with 60 Amp charger on Lagoon list)

5. Onan Genset 11kva 220V / 50hz + COCOON or a smaller one that will run Air/Con while the Solar will take care of most of the other requirements.

6. B&G ZEUS3 12’’ display at Helm Stn should I put one at the Nav Stn ? (set up as a slave)

7. Fridges. Someone mentioned the noise of fridges running all night. Is this an issue on L450 ? I agree with Dave’s comments about the cockpit fridge size (36L) and location.( list price €1,550 ex vat)

8. Downwind shorthand sailing CODE 0 + RIG AND POLE. (€19,650 ex VAT)
or PARASAIL v PARASAILOR ( we are planning to do long ocean passages)

Look forward to reading your replies

[sidetracks]

Update

Just found a very interesting post "Are solar and wind enough for cruising"



http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ng-191467.html

[Pascals Wager]

Congratulations on the order

1. Electric heads v Manual

The admiral gave me no choice here and we have electric, they're easy and convenient to use particularly with guests on board.

2. Cushions supplied by Lagoon or outsource

We did not order Lagoon cushions as we thought the price outrageous. However after struggling to find a local manufacturer to meet our standards we ordered the cockpit cushions from Lagoon post yacht delivery. So it depends if you can source a good enough supplier.

3. What are the best solar panels and number required to meet our daily needs
(we will have all the electric comforts of home onboard)

Most people will say as much as you can jam on and this discussion will go for ever as there are so many variables. It's worth doing a calculation of your expected daily energy demands and design the power source around that. This will involve matching not just solar but your batteries, inverter and genset and considering them as a balanced and complementary source. For example batteries, solar and inverters to run your low current/long time demands like fridges, lights,navigation and short term A.C. like a coffee machine, toaster even a hair drier. Then expect to use the generator for high loads like A.C., water maker, washing machine and battery charging to supplement solar charging.

4. Gel batteries v Lithium (3 Gel 140apm + 2nd 40Amp charger on Lagoon list)
( Electrical circuit with 60 Amp charger on Lagoon list)

Lithium power cells if the budget extends to them, lighter, quicker to recharge and can accept large discharge over and over again. Initial cost is recovered by less genset/engine run time.

5. Onan Genset 11kva 220V / 50hz + COCOON or a smaller one that will run Air/Con while the Solar will take care of most of the other requirements.

Lithium, solar and at least a 5000W inverter should allow you to have a lower output genset based on your total load calculations. A genset is best run under load so too much unused output is detrimental to the diesel engine running it and inefficient and therefor will cost money in the long run. Don't rule out a DC genset, it's worth some research.

6. B&G ZEUS3 12’’ display at Helm Stn should I put one at the Nav Stn ? (set up as a slave)

I run the ZEUS3 12 at the Helm and as it has built in WiFi I mirror the screen on an iPad mounted at the nav station but can be taken anywhere. If the budget extends to a second ZUES then you will have full functionality inside on those not so pleasant days.

7. Fridges. Someone mentioned the noise of fridges running all night. Is this an issue on L450 ? I agree with Dave’s comments about the cockpit fridge size (36L) and location.( list price €1,550 ex vat)

Can't hear our fridges

8. Downwind shorthand sailing CODE 0 + RIG AND POLE. (€19,650 ex VAT)
or PARASAIL v PARASAILOR ( we are planning to do long ocean passages)

We don't have a Parasailor or equivalent.....yet. That is our choice for ddw however, based on other users reviews here and the ease of use. With only two of us cruising and one on watch we don't want to be bothered with poles.

2016 L450S

[tuskie]

Originally Posted by sidetracks

Update

Just found a very interesting post "Are solar and wind enough for cruising"



http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ng-191467.html

Congratulations Sidetracks!

Whilst I agree with PW's responses, most of these issues and decisions have been very fully discussed previously on the Lagoon CF thread, so keep up the reading of older threads.

You haven't mentioned your planned cruising region, so this may influence the choice of fittout. For example, we mostly cruise in the tropics but try to head to cooler climes in cyclone season. Consequently, we don't have or want air-conditioning, with the extra through hull fittings, bulk, weight and maintenance. This decision, in turn means that we have fitted a smaller diesel genset, that loads up correctly when heating water or charging batteries when the sun hasn't provided enough power.

Good luck with your planning.

[Catapault]

Originally Posted by davedindubai

Hi Integra,

Here's the light I opted for but looks very similar to your link anyway.
https://www.bluemarinestore.com/opto...igation-light/

It turns on automatically should you be ashore for sunset cocktails.

I've not changed the bilge alarms yet as we don't have AC so other than when our aft steps shower hose split, our bilges remain dry. (Always remember to turn off at the valve or you'll empty a water tank into the bilges).

We also love the 450 and are finding it the perfect boat for us.

Hi Dave,

Any issue with this light so far ? (Fitting or using !)
Did you get the SW model, or Classic model for the 450 wiring ?

I'm also wanting to fit a masthead tricolour during winter maintenance.

Regards

Mark.

[davedindubai]

Originally Posted by Catapault

Hi Dave,

Any issue with this light so far ? (Fitting or using !)
Did you get the SW model, or Classic model for the 450 wiring ?

I'm also wanting to fit a masthead tricolour during winter maintenance.

Regards

Mark.

i bought the switch model and had it fixed before the mast went up which made everything much easier. i have the option of nav or anchor on the included switch and both come on automatically when it's dark.

very good so far and the bright white led makes our boat very easy to find at night in a crowded anchorage.