Route Planning Questions

[Rasbats]

Rick...

It is getting the route information from Navobj.xml. So if you update a route you would need to close/reopen OpenCPN to get the updated information.

This was to avoid an export to GPX situation.

Mike

[P_Dub]

Rick
These are all things that were requested a long time ago, but were discarded by the programmers. So don't blame me for that. Look at your email.
Have a good day.

[bdbcat]

Rick...
"3. This is a bug in the harmonics file formatting because the current station does not show, or in the Waypoint Current Filter and Menu dropdown which is missing the key Current Stations and others that are alternatives and nearby. I regard this as a bug in OpenCPN"


Couple of points:
1. Tide Stations are always distinct from Current Stations. Different data sources, different harmonics. They may be, but mostly are not, geographically coincident.
2. The ability to attach a station to a Waypoint (Extended Tab) applies only to Tide Stations. Note the text field ("Tide Station") to the left of the drop-down box. Note the "Tide" icon to the right. This is why you are not presented with Current Stations in the drop-down list, and thus have been unable to attach a Current station to the waypoint.
3. Not sure how the otideplan_pi attaches current predictions to routepoints, but it sure is not by means of the default Waypoint Dialog. Only Tide Stations are available here.
4. Is it a bug? Well, no. OCPN is doing what it was designed to do, without failure.

5. Could it be a useful feature? Maybe, if some plugin could access the information in a useful way....Worth discussing. Flyspray, anyone?


Thanks
Dave

[rgleason]

Dave, thanks for the clarification, its very helpful. I really need to read more! I can add some of below to flyspray, but would like to strategize/discuss alternatives a bit.

OpenCPN Route Manager and Waypoints
1. Shouldn't Waypoint > Extended be augmented to have a "Currents" dropdown?
2. Couldn't the new Currents dropdown list be sorted by proximity to the waypoint?
3. Couldn't there be a suggestion showing the closest current with an accept button?
4. Perhaps the new Tidal Calcs can be incorporated with some new fields using "c" for current, like cETA, cETD, cSPD. Perhaps the ETA, ETD and SPD fields change when tide calcs have been done?
5. Perhaps add the ability to select fields to show?
6. Additionally it would be very useful to be able to archive groups of routes. "Save" all "visible" routes as user named "Trips or Voyages", and then later "Load" them back into Route Manager. Many are using Save gpx for this now. How could this be improved?
7. Maybe add a field to all routes for Trip/Voyage/Journey/Passage name. Also use sort, view, on/off by Trips/Voyages in Route Manager?

OtidalPlan
1. How does otidalplan use the current selection? Right now it pops up with a route selection.
2. Perhaps otidalplan could use the currents set in the route if it does not presently?
3. Perhaps otidalplan could import a selected route, show the nearest current stations for each waypoint and allow change//selection of another nearby one. Then do the calcs.


@rasbats We'd like to know more about how otidalplan works with currrents and what we are selecting.

Originally Posted by bdbcat

Rick...
"3. This is a bug in the harmonics file formatting because the current station does not show, or in the Waypoint Current Filter and Menu dropdown which is missing the key Current Stations and others that are alternatives and nearby. I regard this as a bug in OpenCPN"

Couple of points:
1. Tide Stations are always distinct from Current Stations. Different data sources, different harmonics. They may be, but mostly are not, geographically coincident.
2. The ability to attach a station to a Waypoint (Extended Tab) applies only to Tide Stations. Note the text field ("Tide Station") to the left of the drop-down box. Note the "Tide" icon to the right. This is why you are not presented with Current Stations in the drop-down list, and thus have been unable to attach a Current station to the waypoint.
3. Not sure how the otideplan_pi attaches current predictions to routepoints, but it sure is not by means of the default Waypoint Dialog. Only Tide Stations are available here.
4. Is it a bug? Well, no. OCPN is doing what it was designed to do, without failure.

5. Could it be a useful feature? Maybe, if some plugin could access the information in a useful way....Worth discussing. Flyspray, anyone?


Thanks
Dave

[bdbcat]

Rick...
A key point:
The default OCPN core route functions make no allowance or calculations for current, at all. This is a function that is performed by the OTidalPlan plugin, if installed.


So I'm not sure about the value of Waypoint Current attachments. For instance, we have no defined display field for "Current" status in the RouteManagerDialog. What we have there is a column for "Next Tidal Event" at the attached Tide Station, if any.


Thoughts?
Dave

[P_Dub]

Dave, why don't you contact Mike to have more informations, maybe you would clarify more easily the situation. Personnally, I have no problem for selecting the current stations I made to predict an ETA, maybe Mike can make it easier.
Have a good day.

[rgleason]

Sorry, "new Tidal Calcs can" --> "new Current Calcs"

[bdbcat]

I think we should focus our efforts on integration of Current Station data and route planning on Mike's plugin "otidalplan". This is the defined purpose of that plugin. In general, we should not burden OCPN core with a function that is available only in limited parts of the world.


This plugin is in early alpha stage now. I'm sure some dedicated testing and feedback would be welcome.


https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...in-245978.html


Thanks
Dave

[P_Dub]

Dave I did the testing for more than a week with various course routing and speed and it works OK. Now, others will have to do there home work to learn how it works. The result was for ETA was very reasonable (5 to 10 minutes at most) for various ships from 12 to 20 knots over a running time 6 to 12 hours.
Is this good enough for you? Maybe Mike can improve more to make it easier.
Best Regards.

[Rasbats]

v0.9.1 of otidalplan_pi is now in the Beta catalog. This version uses the speeds entered at waypoints as part of the route ETA calculations.

Dave... the concept is to make a set of dummy DR positions. From these the closest tidal current station to the DR is located and the tidal current data is added to the position data. If you tick 'Show attachments' the tidal current station for each DR is shown on the chart,. This also indicates the DR positions.

When the route calculation is made the nearest DR tidal current data is used to calculate SMG etc.

The first cut of the plugin used distance travelled in one hour. This version 'thinks' in terms of time. If a waypoint is reached and there is time remaining (one hour less time travelling to the waypoint) then the remaining time is used to calculate the next EP, beyond the waypoint.

Yes, it would be nice to see more testing .

Mike

[bdbcat]

Mike...
Thanks for the fill on the logic of otidalplan_pi. Sounds quite clever


Dave

[rgleason]

Thanks Mike, for the information. The need for having current selection in the extended waypoint info is not needed at this point. This is a very nice plugin. Can it be made to be easier and clearer somehow, perhaps integrated with OpenCPN Route Manager more?

Dave... the concept is to make a set of dummy DR positions. From these the closest tidal current station to the DR is located and the tidal current data is added to the position data. If you tick 'Show attachments' the tidal current station for each DR is shown on the chart,. This also indicates the DR positions.

I will click "show attachments" next to see the current station at each wp.

Is there a way to list the WP attachments and have a select/accept button for the current station so the user can select a Current station?

This plugin addresses several tracker items, specifically:
FS#2313 - RM Calculate Route with the Tide Harmonics data would be very useful inshore

FS#661 - RM Route Properties Table - Adjust for currents .. set and drift NAV

Related
FS#1892 - RM DR Calculate what speed you need to arrive at a specific time + time indicators on route

Potential Dynamite Planning Feature p-Current Planning Simulator with currents shown
FS#594 - RM Planning "Play" a route simulation.
Ability to "play" the route in 1 hour steps based on the start date and time with the future current shown and the boat location on the route. This is good for sailboats and powerboats (everyone)

Sailboats using weather routing and new gribs the day before, and this Current Planning Simulator, may have a better understanding of the next day's trip.


This plugin promises to be the next best router.

[rgleason]

Mike, aree the orange dashed lines showing the selections in this route?
I don't see these selections in the original route, but with the API I guess this is not possible. It sure would be nice to be able to select alternative tide stations somehow.

[Rasbats]

Rick...

I don't see these selections in the original route

The points along the route are the positions of the dummy DRs. 'Leg distance' is basically the speed used for predicting the DR positions. From these the nearest tidal current station is found.

By changing 'Distance from leg' you can include more/less tidal current stations. If it cannot find a station it will use the boat speed, unless no stations are found, in which case it will warn and exit from 'attaching currents'.

Mike

[Albinvega27]

I am working with OpenCPN for 10 years now and every time I get an update, the problem started again. Reset of speeds and stuff. So today, I barely use it for plotting, tranfer into Garmin and go with it. Like all this Internet/Digital/Computer stuff! Bad manuals, bad set ups and all to complicated. So, your hobby is not sailing anymore, but learning the computer software. OpenCPN works fine for me as a basic. Rest, is all manual sailing old style. And yes I know, none of the software computer freaks will accept, they do basic job, but not good one...