Use Raymarine i60 with Axiom+ or B&G

[FatBear]

I'm just a coastal cruiser and don't go far, so keep that in mind. I currently have a Raymarine i90, an Autohelm ST4000, and a couple of other small, square instruments that aren't relevant here.

I'd like to add a Chartplotter/Multi-function display and at some point, radar and AIS. I have room for a 7" or 9" display and would prefer the 9" because of my old eyes.

I have been reading a lot of opinions and I'm going to get either a Raymarine Axiom+ 9" or a B&G Zeus or Vulcan in 9". But I'm not here to ask for advice on which to get. I like the B&G because it is much thinner and will not overwhelm my binnacle. But I will get Axiom+ if B&G won't work with the two instruments I mentioned in the first paragraph.

What I really want to ask is: has anyone successfully used the i90 and the ST4000 with the current B&G displays? Please don't suggest tossing them all out and starting over or any of those usual things that come up in these brand-oriented discussions. Please. And no theories. I would really like to know if it has actually been done within the limits of practicality. Meaning maybe a H/W adapter and careful configuration in the B&G display.

Thank you!

[George_SD]

Even if you go with Axiom+, it won't be plug and play since they are different generations and will require some converters to integrate. For raymarine use you will most likely need at least SeaTalk to SeaTalkng Converter Kit.

In that regard it should not be different for either brand as this converter can also be used with NMEA2000 adapter to connect to other brands. B&G will work, but will not have full functionality in terms of Autopilot commands. You will probably have to select the waypoint on the chart plotter, but activate and confirm from the pilot instead of just doing it form the plotter.

[SV Confianza]

My seatalk to seatalk get converter is finicky. It loses info from gps sometimes. All other devices work no problem. I haven’t had time to troubleshoot it, but maybe others are having the same problem.

[FatBear]

Are you combining Raymarine/Seatalk devices with a B&G display? Or is this another ominous warning about Seatalk converters?

According to the Raymarine website, the i60 is "SeaTalkng, NMEA2000 and SeaTalk network compatible". Does "compatible" mean that no adapter would be needed to connect to either the Axiom+ or the B&G displays? I'll be on the boat today and I can see I need to re-read the i60 manual.

EDIT:
I looked up the manual online. It appears that the connector on the back of the i60 is SeatalkNG and only requires a "SeaTalkng® to DeviceNet adaptor cable (A06045)" to connect to an NMEA-2000 backbone. So it appears that connecting it up is not an issue and no converter is needed. The question remains: has anyone used the i60 as input to a B&G display?

[onewadd]

SeaTalk NG is NEMA2000, just the connecters are "Raymarine". That said, your i60 is plug and play although may not have 100% functionality if your plotter is not Raymarine. Your ST4000 Auto Helm is SeaTalk and will need a SeaTalk to SeatalkNG converter to be added to the network. I just upgraded my Auto Pilot to an EV1 and with the converter was able to add four older SeaTalk units to the network. The only issue (based on my research) will be how much, if any, of the Auto Helm functions can be controlled from the new plotter regardless of brand. I can tell you that my Raymarine remote SmartController (E15023), which is one of the SeaTalk units networked through the converter, works just like it did with my previous ST7001 Auto Pilot. This is my personal experience.

[FatBear]

I'm a pretty simple guy, really. I like the basic information that is provided by the i60. I don't use, or even know of, any other fancy features it might have. But mine is mounted on the cabin bulkhead and is easily blocked by people standing in the cockpit or leaving the door open too far. If I can just see the instrument on the display at the binnacle, that's all I need. I presume that if the wind speed and direction can be displayed, then it can also be used elsewhere in the MFD in case I ever feel the need.

Likewise, the autopilot control is mounted next to the i60. In order to activate it or set it or use it at all I need to go around the wheel and forward to the cabin, leaving the wheel unattended. I would mostly like to use the autopilot to hold my course while I raise the sail, enabling me to sail the boat "singlehanded" with non-sailing persons aboard. (I'll probably never go out actually alone.) So all I need is to be able to steer a course and click "hold this course" on the display somehow and have the autopilot do that. Do you think a B&G display can issue this simple command to the ST4000 - assuming it get the right hardware adapter(s)?

Come to think of it, there is also a depth guage of the same vintage as the ST4000 (ST60 series, I think, with original Seatalk) which would be nice to see on the display because it is often blocked along with the other instruments. Hopefully I can get that integrated as well, though I don't need it nearly as much. I generally know where the shallow water is where I sail and can ask people to get out of the way when I need to watch it. If you are bearing down on the shoreline they do seem to grasp the immediate need to know the depth. :-)

Thanks

[Pete7]

We have our ST60 instruments connected to the RM Element (cheap version of an Axiom, but has buttons which I wanted. the ST60s connect via the Seatalk to NG Seatalk perfectly and display depth wind and speed on the Element.

Go with the 9 inch display if you can. Radar on the 7" wasn't great and cut off the top and bottom of the circle due to the landscape layout of the screen if zoomed in. I had the chance to play with both in the shop before buying and that made the difference to pay the extra for the 9 inch display.

Pete

[FatBear]

Thanks, Pete. And for that photo of exactly what I wanted to see! I really appreciate it.

The i60 display is much easier on the eyes, but only if you can see it way over there on the bulkhead. I often cannot. This looks like it should work just fine.

Without major changes to my binnacle, I'm kind of jammed on the space available. I'm still working out the plan, but I'll probably squeeze the display in between the uprights of the SS grab bar above the compass. I measured a B&G 9" Vulcan and it will fit. I need to look up measurements for the Axiom+ 9", but I suspect it will also fit. I think I have 10-3/4" of width available, but I don't want something as wide as that or it will rattle. So I'm probably limited to one without buttons and knobs. I like buttons and knobs, but you don't always get what you want.

Brian

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by FatBear

…So I'm probably limited to one without buttons and knobs. I like buttons and knobs, but you don't always get what you want.

Brian

Hi Brian, touchscreens do not work when they’re covered in water, such as from rain or waves and spray. Is your binnacle location sufficiently protected from the elements that the mfd screen will stay dry? If not, get a mfd that has buttons. Or buy and mount the RMK-10 remote keypad control.

We have an Axiom+ 9 on our boat, but it is in a protected location and doesn’t get wet. But even wet fingers interfere with touch screen operation.

[FatBear]

Originally Posted by fxykty

Hi Brian, touchscreens do not work when they’re covered in water, such as from rain or waves and spray. Is your binnacle location sufficiently protected from the elements that the mfd screen will stay dry? If not, get a mfd that has buttons. Or buy and mount the RMK-10 remote keypad control.

Thanks for the warning. It is something to keep in mind.

I do not have room for a 9" one with buttons in the location where I wish to put it. And I am in San Diego. Rain is unusual in San Diego. It's one big reason why we retired here from Oregon. So it's unlikely I will be sailing much, if ever, in the rain. Waves and spray are a possibility that I do have to think about, though Nonsuches are pretty dry boats.

I also have a new bimini on my list, though probably not for the next couple of years. The old one is no longer usable. After that the display will be covered. In the mean time, it will only be covered by the binnacle cover while docked. And if a wet screen does somehow become a problem, maybe I'll make a foul weather hood for it.

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by FatBear

Thanks for the warning. It is something to keep in mind.

I do not have room for a 9" one with buttons in the location where I wish to put it. And I am in San Diego. Rain is unusual in San Diego. It's one big reason why we retired here from Oregon. So it's unlikely I will be sailing much, if ever, in the rain. Waves and spray are a possibility that I do have to think about, though Nonsuches are pretty dry boats.

I also have a new bimini on my list, though probably not for the next couple of years. The old one is no longer usable. After that the display will be covered. In the mean time, it will only be covered by the binnacle cover while docked. And if a wet screen does somehow become a problem, maybe I'll make a foul weather hood for it.

A foul weather hood is a great idea - even overnight dew can make it hard to turn on an Axiom+. Nonsuch cat sloop or ketch? Those are lovely boats.

[FatBear]

Originally Posted by fxykty

A foul weather hood is a great idea - even overnight dew can make it hard to turn on an Axiom+. Nonsuch cat sloop or ketch? Those are lovely boats.

Thanks, yes they are nice boats for their era. Nonsuches are catboats, not sloops or ketches. One unstayed mast all the way forward, one big sail, one halyard, one sheet. Mine has a 669 SF sail on a 33' boat. If you look up racing catboats from the 1800s you will realize that our more modern ones are very under-canvassed. :-)

They are not slow boats, but I'm no racer. For me it's just an old-guy boat that I can sail without leaving the cockpit and without the need for skilled crew. With the Stack Pak I can unzip and connect the halyard and generally get the boat ready to sail while still at the dock. Then my wife or other friend needs only to steer into the wind for a few minutes while I raise the sail with the electric winch. After that, I can steer and handle the sheet at the same time. Tacking is simple to the point of embarrassment: just turn the wheel and it tacks itself. You do not want to gibe it with such a big sail on such a small boat.

My wife enjoys the ride, but is not a sailor. With any other boat we'd probably not go out nearly as often as we do in this one.

If I recall, Hinterhoeller - the maker of Nonsuch boats - also made a line of ketches with jibs and freestanding masts. Nariad or something like that was the model name, I think. But they only sold a handful of them.

So do B&G displays have the same water issue?

[sailingharry]

You're looking for a very specific existing user experience, which might be hard to get.

My experience is not specific, but worth sharing.

The i-60 is N2K, nothing but a cable to connect it. Slam dunk. (But if you do not currently have a network, you will need to set up a basic network. Just like computers, you can't connect two with one ethernet cord, it has to go to a router.)

The autopilot is ST. The $100 or $200 ST-STNG adapter is an awesome piece of kit. It will absolutely connect your autopilot to your chart plotter. As an added bonus, if you do not currently have an N2K or STNG network on the boat, it is a "network in a box", provides everything you need for a basic network.

But perhaps the most important note for your use case. My current bost and my previous boat had the chart plotter effectively connected to the autopilot, and it would share things like routes. As an added bonus, the autopilot would share magnetic heading, so the chartplotter knows where the boat is pointed (heading, as opposed to COG). But in both cases, and I believe this is universal, using the chartplotter to control the autopilot (on/off) cannot be done across brands. I'm not going to bet the farm, but I'll certainly wager a beer!

[FatBear]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

You're looking for a very specific existing user experience, which might be hard to get.

True, but just putting a vague question out for discussion means "pull up a stool" time. I have an actual need for information, not a need to socialize. I have been getting what I need in bits and pieces, one of which you have contributed right here. (Thank you!) Besides, it's hard to imagine that nobody has attempted to connect the i60 or ST4000 to a B&G display. So I think it's reasonable to hope that I'll get answers from those people, too.

The i-60 is N2K, nothing but a cable to connect it. Slam dunk. (But if you do not currently have a network, you will need to set up a basic network. Just like computers, you can't connect two with one ethernet cord, it has to go to a router.)

Actually, you can do peer-to-peer networking on Ethernet, but routers make it much simpler so that mere mortals can do it. Are you sure this isn't also the case for Seatalk? Because:

A question: my boat currently has four little square instruments on the cabin bulkhead. Three of them are interconnected with what are apparently SeatalkNG cables. There is such a balled up rat's nest of extra cabling stuffed into the little space behind them that it will be a big project to sort it all out, but I'll save that project for when the time comes that I have to do it. In any case, I have not run across anything that looks "router-ish" or "switch-ish" back there. Just the instruments, themselves.

The autopilot is ST. The $100 or $200 ST-STNG adapter is an awesome piece of kit. It will absolutely connect your autopilot to your chart plotter. As an added bonus, if you do not currently have an N2K or STNG network on the boat, it is a "network in a box", provides everything you need for a basic network

So maybe the use of the router is to not only interconnect the network, but also to interconnect and adapt the different network types?

[sailingharry]

The square boxes probably uses seatalk. Seatalk uses a black rubber plug about a quarter inch thick and an inch wide. This is a super easy protocol to implement, no traffic control of any sort. It is exclusively proprietary to mostly old Raymarine instrumentation.

There is no router for stng (aka N2K). It is a bus protocol. A small resistor at each end and tees or drops along the bus. This device is a super easy starting point. The blue plugs are the resistors, the white plugs are drops, and the yellow plug converts to the old seatalk.
https://www.westmarine.com/raymarine...-11013927.html
Unfortunately, you will use one white plug to inject power into the bus. If you only needed one additional modern piece of equipment, your chartplotter for instance, you would be done. You will need to get a way to add additional t's.