Radar or AIS to rouse me when in a stupor?

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by SailFastTri

The open array radars have higher resolution than the dome arrays. They are also more likely to snag lines, which is obviously problematic on a sailboat.
What I don’t like? It’s fine, but the B&G (Navico) broadband works better close in (under a mile). I sail in New England where we have frequent fog. When all boats have presumably slowed down and we are near shore and visibility is under 1/4 mile I’m more concerned about the guy in a small open fishing boat that’s close to my boat than a commercial ship who can also see my AIS signal.
As for strangers, I get it That introduces another type of risk.

Now this is getting really interesting!

This is where I grew up learning to sail and these are my home waters.

When it’s foggy, I actually don’t usually go out. That’s the first line of defense. Lol

Back in the old days, when I was learning to sail in that area, with all of the rocks and the fog, I remember going out in the fog quite often.

It never really scared me that much. It was definitely exhilarating. We had LORAN.. GPS was just barely coming out. We definitely didn’t have any chart plotters. We kept our position using dead reckoning. Fancy rich people had radar. Not me. Lol

It was exhilarating and amazing actually to sail in the fog and navigate using dead reckoning, glimpses of land, the sound of the gongs. you could hear boats coming. Especially the power boats.

Now, my current boat is a lot faster. So that may change things a bit.

For now, I won’t be in any substantial fog. Not navigating anyway.

I’m going to bounce around Florida this winter before I come home to see you later in June or July. Ha ha.

And that is the main reason I’m looking for a radar or AIS. The big trip up from Florida to New England. It’s possible I will have to do some overnights, but, some people posted that it’s not even necessary. That I should be able to make places to anchor each evening. That’s why I have to get used to this boat before making the purchases. I need to see how often I will need to use these electronic devices.

[SailFastTri]

Originally Posted by Chotu

SNIP
I’m going to bounce around Florida this winter before I come home to see you later in June or July. Ha ha.

And that is the main reason I’m looking for a radar or AIS. The big trip up from Florida to New England. It’s possible I will have to do some overnights, but, some people posted that it’s not even necessary. That I should be able to make places to anchor each evening. That’s why I have to get used to this boat before making the purchases. I need to see how often I will need to use these electronic devices.

Based on your boat size I presume your mast height clearance requirement is greater than 64'. That will limit your options and require a few overnight sails. Discussion of the ICW and height restrictions is a major thread drift and best done on another thread. (There are many on that topic already).
As for AIS on the ICW, in my experience in Spring 2022 the majority of cruisers transiting the ICW have AIS, and almost all commercial vessels over 65' LOA. The local small fishing boats don't generally have it, but there's not much fog in the SE US and few people try to run the ICW in the dark, so radar isn't needed in the ICW, IMHO.

It's useful to be able to see approaching barges on AIS even before they're in view, and you can hail them on the VHF to negotiate passing before they appear from around the next bend.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by SailFastTri

Based on your boat size I presume your mast height clearance requirement is greater than 64'. That will limit your options and require a few overnight sails. Discussion of the ICW and height restrictions is a major thread drift and best done on another thread. (There are many on that topic already).
As for AIS on the ICW, in my experience in Spring 2022 the majority of cruisers transiting the ICW have AIS, and almost all commercial vessels over 65' LOA. The local small fishing boats don't generally have it, but there's not much fog in the SE US and few people try to run the ICW in the dark, so radar isn't needed in the ICW, IMHO.

It's useful to be able to see approaching barges on AIS even before they're in view, and you can hail them on the VHF to negotiate passing before they appear from around the next bend.

That’s correct. No more ICW for me. Lol

I was getting pretty tired of it anyway. Just like driving route 95. Ha ha.

I think my sister ship was saying that there is only one overnight required to get up there.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by SailFastTri

As for AIS on the ICW, in my experience in Spring 2022 the majority of cruisers transiting the ICW have AIS...

...there's not much fog in the SE US and few people try to run the ICW in the dark, so radar isn't needed in the ICW, IMHO.

Absolutely opposite of our experience.

Don't really disagree with your conclusion about radar and ICW, though...

-Chris

[rslifkin]

Of note on the radar thing, I've just learned that the newer Raymarine Cyclone open array has proper ARPA like the Furuno stuff, rather than manually operated MARPA target tracking on most other consumer radars. And open arrays do have much better target resolution, as mentioned. The beam width spec on the Raymarine domes is unimpressive (compared to other modern radomes), but the open array specs look much more favorable (even for the small 3 foot open array).

Of course, the open arrays are significantly more expensive, so your intended usage will determine if they're worth the extra cost or not.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by ranger58sb

Absolutely opposite of our experience.

Don't really disagree with your conclusion about radar and ICW, though...

-Chris

It’s been a few years for me. I haven’t done the ICW in a while now.


But the majority of people I saw on there were definitely not going to be AIS or radar candidates. They were pretty much all 21-27ft sailboats from Quebec. Lol. Outboards at full throttle screaming along.

[SailFastTri]

Originally Posted by ranger58sb

Absolutely opposite of our experience.

Don't really disagree with your conclusion about radar and ICW, though...

-Chris

I wrote the majority of cruisers have it. I agree the local boats are mostly open go-fast and small fishing boats that don't. The cruisers seem to be mostly sailboats and trawlers/sedan cruisers above 35 ft. and I think most do if the hailing port on the transom is far from the place where we saw it.

We met a lot of loopers too, and there seemed to be a large percentage of them AIS-equipped.

[SailFastTri]

Originally Posted by Chotu

That’s correct. No more ICW for me. Lol

I was getting pretty tired of it anyway. Just like driving route 95. Ha ha.

I think my sister ship was saying that there is only one overnight required to get up there.

Definitely required to get around Hatteras and (I think) Cape Fear also. But unless the weather requires you to seek shelter (if you had crew) you will want to stay outside and run it all the way as much as possible. You can save a huge amount of time and stay in the Gulf Stream if you skip the Georgia coast and head straight from Florida to Wrightsville Beach or Moorehead/Beaufort NC.

In Georgia and SC the continental shelf is so shallow it can be 8-10NM from the time you enter a channel to the time you actually reach the inlet. That makes each inlet a long detour. Some are just a detour due to the contour of the coastline. (e.g. Cape Fear River - if you want to stop there you need to go pretty far east to get around the cape before you can turn north again.)

[team karst]

Only slightly off topic; but ever notice how few cruisers spent nites anchored off the FL beach, but in the Bahamas do just that routinely. I can count on one hand the times I have anchored off the beach.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by team karst

Only slightly off topic; but ever notice how few cruisers spent nites anchored off the FL beach, but in the Bahamas do just that routinely. I can count on one hand the times I have anchored off the beach.

Probably depends on the swell? There is often one on the Atlantic.

I’ll anchor anywhere weather, topography and depth allows. Ha ha.

I’ve definitely just anchored off the beach.

[SailFastTri]

Originally Posted by team karst

Only slightly off topic; but ever notice how few cruisers spent nites anchored off the FL beach, but in the Bahamas do just that routinely. I can count on one hand the times I have anchored off the beach.

The Florida east coast is a windward shore, in the prevailing winds. People generally avoid anchoring on a windward shore for good reason. In the islands, people anchor on the lee side of the island.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Chotu

That’s correct. No more ICW for me. Lol

I was getting pretty tired of it anyway. Just like driving route 95. Ha ha.

I think my sister ship was saying that there is only one overnight required to get up there.

If it turns out you weren’t making as good a speed as planned and you were entering the jetties after dark, would you rather have AIS or radar to guide you through those jetties and up the channel?

[SailFastTri]

Originally Posted by smj

If it turns out you weren’t making as good a speed as planned and you were entering the jetties after dark, would you rather have AIS or radar to guide you through those jetties and up the channel?

1) I wouldn't enter an unfamiliar inlet after dark unless the boat was already sinking or there was some other dire emergency (e.g. medical).
2) Radar is the answer you're looking for, but I wouldn't use radar to guide me. I'd use all three of the following, in this order:

1. Direct view of surroundings using visual
2. Chartplotter with radar overlay on chart

I would not even consider using stand-alone radar without a chart overlay in the close quarters of an inlet or harbor.


Edit - On second thought, I might enter a major all-weather inlet after dark, but would prefer not to. Would anchor ASAP in an open area or tie up to a well lit marina.


2nd edit - I might turn off the radar in the close confines of an inlet or harbor, to reduce visual clutter on the chartplotter. I usually run with radar during the day so I have practice correlating what I see around the boat to what's on screen, and usually turn it off in harbors for this reason.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by smj

If it turns out you weren’t making as good a speed as planned and you were entering the jetties after dark, would you rather have AIS or radar to guide you through those jetties and up the channel?

With AIS I will be able to see all of the other boats up on the jetties. And avoid them. I will just look for them all lined up near the harbor entrance in a row. With 0.0 kn speed and indeterminate direction. Ha ha ha.

But I actually don’t like entering places at night in all seriousness. If that happened I would just keep going.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Chotu

With AIS I will be able to see all of the other boats up on the jetties. And avoid them. I will just look for them all lined up near the harbor entrance in a row. With 0.0 kn speed and indeterminate direction. Ha ha ha.



But I actually don’t like entering places at night in all seriousness. If that happened I would just keep going.

I’d rather enter during daylight, but the majority of passable inlets are pretty easily entered at night which as SailFastTri says with the use of eyeball navigation, radar overlaid on chart plotter or a split screen chart plotter/radar. In this case the radar wins hands down
I could see AIS as being a good tool for water sailing">blue water sailing, but for coastal day hops I haven’t and probably will never feel the need.