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Old 31-12-2022, 02:07   #91
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Re: Radar or AIS to rouse me when in a stupor?

There is no excuse for not stretching a bit further and getting an AIS transceiver. Please note it’s a “transceiver”, not a “transponder”. The latter is a device which responds to a trigger, whereas an AIS transceiver merrily transmits according to agreed parameters.

Sadly some manufacturers are better at the technical stuff than they are at English. I’ve had this fight with some of them, but have given up for my own sanity!

So when looking for a product, you have to search for both.

Do get AIS. Don’t go offshore without RADAR.
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Old 31-12-2022, 05:33   #92
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Re: Radar or AIS to rouse me when in a stupor?

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Chotu, if you have a fast boat, you might not need to do an overnight at all, if you plan your weather right. The only jump that requires an overnight is Virginia Beach to Morehead City (around Hatteras), unless you can average like 12 kts.

We just hopped down from Maine to Florida, and Hatteras was the only overnight we required. And we only average 7-8kts.

Without beating everything else to death here, I have to put a huge vote in for just saving on other things and getting both. It's safety and loss of life we're talking.

Set the Axiom to chart mode and overlay both radar and AIS. We have the Axiom and the quantum radar. The radar alarms are tricky to get right (impossible if you're too close to land). Setting the guard zones to a thinner circle helps. But it will still go off when you don't want it to.

95% of boats offshore at night on east coast will have AIS, and will actively stay away from you because they know your position and heading via AIS. There are some fishing boats that are not on AIS, usually within 5ish miles of land, but also usually lit up light a Christmas tree while fishing at night.

With the overlays set up, you easily identify a blip on radar that's NOT on AIS, and can keep track of.

It's SO worth it to have both...

We used to offshore sail without either, and I couldn't even imagine going back.

I know boats just eat money, but my humble opinion is that the navigation equipment is worth prioritizing.
Another home run here. Wow. Some good posts this morning.

Curious. I can’t do 65 foot bridges. What’s your mast height?
Admittedly I haven’t really planned a coastal trip yet with this boat up the East Coast. That’s for spring. But I was imagining I would have some time offshore overnight.

Also, there is a bit of a backstory that’s important to remember. I think I mentioned it in the first post. Maybe I didn’t.

I’m putting a rig on right now to see if I like boats anymore. I don’t even remember. The plan is to mess around in Florida for the winter and head up north with it in the spring. Traveling solo and doing this myself and seeing if this is something I still like or not. It’s been a long time. And especially doing it solo. I have to see if I like it solo. I have only done it with girlfriends and wives before.

So I’m just trying to get the boat together enough to figure out if I want to continue or sell it.

There is still another couple years doing the interior And plenty of cosmetic hurricane damage and Worker damage to fix on the exterior.

Trying to determine how I would like to spend my life moving forward.
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Old 31-12-2022, 05:42   #93
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Re: Radar or AIS to rouse me when in a stupor?

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Don't chart plotters have the ability to hide targets that are not "important?" Displaying everything withing about a half mile(configurable), and outside of that only show class B if there is a close CPA? A chart plotter display shouldn't be that cluttered, unless there are a hundred ships all on a collision course.

Ours is configurable. Distance, CPA, target speed, etc.


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So if the commercial traffic hides you as your not important then they are unaware your there and unaware of your intentions?
I suspect that whole "filter out the little guys" is just urban myth. There are legit ways to filter but target size (imagined from transmitter type) isn't really useful. Targets more than X miles away? Targets whose CPA is nowhere near? Et cetera...

And icons on a screen isn't necessarily a deal anyway. Targets that alarm -- per your proximity and CPA (etc.) settings -- are usually what you'd pay close attention to.

FWIW, we've been hailed by commercial ships in dense fog to discuss transit plans. They apparently didn't filter out our Class B (at the time) transmitter...

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Old 31-12-2022, 05:45   #94
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Re: Radar or AIS to rouse me when in a stupor?

Actually, I do know a little of something about this commercial aspect you guys are talking about.

One of my best friends from college went to mass maritime academy and is first mate on commercial ships.

Just like this entire thread, it depends on where.

When they are in open water, they are looking at everything.

When they come into a harbor they cut class B AIS off because they can’t see what they need to see otherwise, which is commercial vessels that don’t maneuver as well as our little toys in tight spaces.
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Old 31-12-2022, 05:59   #95
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Re: Radar or AIS to rouse me when in a stupor?

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Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
Actually, I do know a little of something about this commercial aspect you guys are talking about.

One of my best friends from college went to mass maritime academy and is first mate on commercial ships.

Just like this entire thread, it depends on where.

When they are in open water, they are looking at everything.

When they come into a harbor they cut class B AIS off because they can’t see what they need to see otherwise, which is commercial vessels that don’t maneuver as well as our little toys in tight spaces.
The good news is that you can see them with an AIS Receiver because they are still transmitting.

Every ship, tug, dredger, that comes into the Bay here has been transmitting with AIS with no exceptions

Of course you usually only need the AIS Receiver to get an idea of what is coming.

Usually you can just go by what you can see unless you need their course and speed to plan on crossing their bow

These days though with tunnel construction going on and dredging the ships are going much slower which makes it nice
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Old 31-12-2022, 06:34   #96
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Re: Radar or AIS to rouse me when in a stupor?

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Just like this entire thread, it depends on where.

When they are in open water, they are looking at everything.

When they come into a harbor they cut class B AIS off because they can’t see what they need to see otherwise, which is commercial vessels that don’t maneuver as well as our little toys in tight spaces.

I can see the sense in that...

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Old 31-12-2022, 06:41   #97
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Re: Radar or AIS to rouse me when in a stupor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
Actually, I do know a little of something about this commercial aspect you guys are talking about.

One of my best friends from college went to mass maritime academy and is first mate on commercial ships.

Just like this entire thread, it depends on where.

When they are in open water, they are looking at everything.

When they come into a harbor they cut class B AIS off because they can’t see what they need to see otherwise, which is commercial vessels that don’t maneuver as well as our little toys in tight spaces.

The good news is that you don't need radar or AIS in that situation to avoid the ships etc.

As long as you have a GPS and chart you are good

With an AIS Receiver and chart plotter, it's easier though.

Just stay out of the shipping channels.

If you end up in one by mistake at least here in the US you can expect a call from the pilot

Even if you are close like in this radio call here on a mostly clear day. This is happening about 7 miles or so East of me. I have already crossed the first shipping channel at this point:

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Old 31-12-2022, 06:57   #98
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Re: Radar or AIS to rouse me when in a stupor?

Upon further reflection today:

Because the radar doesn’t really have to be installed by the Rigger, which I was thinking it might have to, I’m going to just put it off.

I will also put off the AIS.

I’m going to use the boat without both, like I have done for the last 35 years or so, and just get a feel the boat before buying these.

I won’t be doing any single-handed overnight sailing initially. Just coastal port to port stuff.

I’ll just keep it to day trips for the first month or so and let the boat tell me what to do next.

That’s always the best way right? We always tell people to take the boat out before you start the refit. The boat will tell you what it needs. It’s been so long that I almost forgot the golden rule.

So I’ll just take the boat out and let it tell me what it needs. I think a lot of that is going to be rigging related stuff at first. And fine-tuning things that already exist. That, and some comfort items like getting the spectra water maker running. Hooking up the other half of my solar array. Hooking up the second LFP battery. Redoing the electrical system for real. It’s in a construction zone sort of state right now. Consists of adequate, but not well laid out DC wiring and extension cords for AC power. It’s about time to start updating that for the real installation.
I also could use some permanent salon doors. Maybe some stairs to get up and down into the hulls. There’s a lot of fine-tuning.

But I will let the boat tell me what order to do things in. How does that sound?

I think when the time comes to head up north, I will just get both of these. And I will get the AIS transceiver. Good tools to have. Especially given how much fog there is up north.
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Old 31-12-2022, 07:24   #99
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Re: Radar or AIS to rouse me when in a stupor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
Actually, I do know a little of something about this commercial aspect you guys are talking about.

One of my best friends from college went to mass maritime academy and is first mate on commercial ships.

Just like this entire thread, it depends on where.

When they are in open water, they are looking at everything.

When they come into a harbor they cut class B AIS off because they can’t see what they need to see otherwise, which is commercial vessels that don’t maneuver as well as our little toys in tight spaces.


Basically same as what I was told.
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Old 31-12-2022, 07:28   #100
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Re: Radar or AIS to rouse me when in a stupor?

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Upon further reflection today:

Because the radar doesn’t really have to be installed by the Rigger, which I was thinking it might have to, I’m going to just put it off.

I will also put off the AIS.

I’m going to use the boat without both, like I have done for the last 35 years or so, and just get a feel the boat before buying these.

I won’t be doing any single-handed overnight sailing initially. Just coastal port to port stuff.

I’ll just keep it to day trips for the first month or so and let the boat tell me what to do next.

That’s always the best way right? We always tell people to take the boat out before you start the refit. The boat will tell you what it needs. It’s been so long that I almost forgot the golden rule.

So I’ll just take the boat out and let it tell me what it needs. I think a lot of that is going to be rigging related stuff at first. And fine-tuning things that already exist. That, and some comfort items like getting the spectra water maker running. Hooking up the other half of my solar array. Hooking up the second LFP battery. Redoing the electrical system for real. It’s in a construction zone sort of state right now. Consists of adequate, but not well laid out DC wiring and extension cords for AC power. It’s about time to start updating that for the real installation.
I also could use some permanent salon doors. Maybe some stairs to get up and down into the hulls. There’s a lot of fine-tuning.

But I will let the boat tell me what order to do things in. How does that sound?

I think when the time comes to head up north, I will just get both of these. And I will get the AIS transceiver. Good tools to have. Especially given how much fog there is up north.
The coastal port to port can get interesting if you are delayed just a bit.

Going up the Eastern side of the Bay on July the 4th this year the wind was wrong at my planned anchorage so I had to sail another 30 miles or so. There are very few places to anchor or get into over there especially when the wind is SW and at 15-18 knots

I passed the anchorage at about 5 pm.

I came into a shallow and narrow creek at 10:30 PM.

Didn't need the AIS or a radar but definitely needed my OpenCPN Chart. I had my laptop in the cockpit as I came in.

I kept going below to lay down for brief periods from about 7 pm until 9 pm. I had completed my workout only the day before so was getting quite tired

The Coast Guard tried to board me at about 5 pm but I wouldn't stop when they said and kept pointing North a bit to a better spot.

Wind was 16-18 knots on the port quarter. I may have run aground if I had stopped and would definitely gotten beat up a bit from the waves.

This went on for a minute or 2 then they finally realized the situation and told me over the loud speaker that they were letting me go.

That was a huge relief
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Old 31-12-2022, 07:37   #101
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Re: Radar or AIS to rouse me when in a stupor?

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The coastal port to port can get interesting if you are delayed just a bit.

Going up the Eastern side of the Bay on July the 4th this year the wind was wrong at my planned anchorage so I had to sail another 30 miles or so. There are very few places to anchor or get into over there especially when the wind is SW and at 15-18 knots

I passed the anchorage at about 5 pm.

I came into a shallow and narrow creek at 10:30 PM.

Didn't need the AIS or a radar but definitely needed my OpenCPN Chart. I had my laptop in the cockpit as I came in.

I kept going below to lay down for brief periods from about 7 pm until 9 pm. I had completed my workout only the day before so was getting quite tired

The Coast Guard tried to board me at about 5 pm but I wouldn't stop when they said and kept pointing North a bit to a better spot.

Wind was 16-18 knots on the port quarter. I may have run aground if I had stopped and would definitely gotten beat up a bit from the waves.

This went on for a minute or 2 then they finally realized the situation and told me over the loud speaker that they were letting me go.

That was a huge relief
I actually don’t get into those situations. No offense. But that doesn’t happen to me. I plan out my passages very carefully. Taking future weather into account.

I’m also lazy and will wait and sit around until there’s a good weather pattern andnice wind.

By nice wind I mean an offshore breeze, appropriate strength, not in my face.

That’s one of the reasons I built this kind of boat. 99% of the time I’m wishing there was more wind. Just because of the way I plan my passages. I like things easy.

So, having a boat that can sell pretty well in benign conditions was my goal.
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Old 31-12-2022, 08:22   #102
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Re: Radar or AIS to rouse me when in a stupor?

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I actually don’t get into those situations. No offense. But that doesn’t happen to me. I plan out my passages very carefully. Taking future weather into account.

I’m also lazy and will wait and sit around until there’s a good weather pattern andnice wind.

By nice wind I mean an offshore breeze, appropriate strength, not in my face.

That’s one of the reasons I built this kind of boat. 99% of the time I’m wishing there was more wind. Just because of the way I plan my passages. I like things easy.

So, having a boat that can sell pretty well in benign conditions was my goal.
You're sounding like a guy that doesn't sail much.

It will happen though if you sail enough.

Plus some of the coastal hops you mentioned or quite long.

You'll get delayed or something will break.

Maybe a halyard fails or a shackle breaks and your sail comes down etc and motoring is slower

Or a squall comes up which pushes you off course. Things happen.

If you sail enough it will happen.

So plan on it.
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Old 31-12-2022, 08:26   #103
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Re: Radar or AIS to rouse me when in a stupor?

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It will happen though if you sail enough.

You'll get delayed or something will break.

Maybe a halyard fails and your sail comes down etc and motoring is slower

Or a squall comes up which pushes you off course. Things happen.

If you sail enough it will happen

So plan on it
I am on 35 years now, most of that spent on the water. Literally. Not on land. Sleeping every night at anchor. How much longer will it take?

Things break. I fix them.

Either that or I just anchor wherever I am and fix it.

I think that’s the difference difference between having a short waterline and a long waterline. It doesn’t really bother me to anchor out in the middle of the bay if I need to stop to fix something. It’s not really a big deal. It would be on a small boat though. I agree on that.

This is why I always go for boats with long waterline lengths. This is when you need them.

And let me tell you, here are some things I’ve run into.

*cabin soles floating around and had to fix the fresh water pump
*total loss of hydraulic steering
*failed motors more times than I can count

All I do is stop and fix it. You don’t have to be in an “anchorage “ to fix a problem.

You just stop wherever you have to in the best sort of Anchorage you can find. Any spot will do. If it’s late, that’s where you sleep for the night.

If the shackle fails I’ll put a new one on. Or better yet, I’ll just tie a bowline.

You may not get the best and most comfortable night’s sleep of your life when you have to stop for an emergency, but you just get it done.

I also still, and have for many years, complained about when people say they were “blown off course “. I still find that to be a bunch of BS. I’m sorry but I really do. You don’t get blown off course. You make a lot of mistakes that move you off course. That’s about it. Otherwise why would you be blown off course? If you are in control of the boat, it’s going where you decide to go, albeit admittedly more slowly.

But still, that’s your own fault for cutting things to close. You should never expect to be sailing until sunset and leaving no time buffer. That’s just foolish. That’s poor planning.

I typically assume a 5 knot boat speed on a 50ft monohull and leave at dawn, still leaving hours of daylight at the end of the day. Not a big fan of trying to enter places I’ve never been in the dark. So I don’t. I choose not to.

And I don’t mean you in particular. I mean everyone. It’s foolish. If you plan your passages correctly, you don’t have any of these problems.

And this one might sound a little weird, but many years ago, out of just being cheap and frugal, I figured out how to sail without breaking things. I have never broken a piece of the rig before. Not once in all these 35 years. I’ve always been too cheap to do that. So I don’t stress my rig. Never ripped a sail, never lost any running rigging. Nothing. I keep the stresses low so I don’t have to buy new stuff. And most of my boats were from the 1980s. Lol. Lots of original equipment. I was careful with them.

EDIT: I destroyed some Dutchman system sail flaking lines on my Oday 302 many years back because I didn’t understand how to use them. Shredded them all up.
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Old 31-12-2022, 08:44   #104
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Re: Radar or AIS to rouse me when in a stupor?

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I am on 35 years now, most of that spent on the water. Literally. Not on land. Sleeping every night at anchor. How much longer will it take?

Things break. I fix them.

Either that or I just anchor wherever I am and fix it.

I think that’s the difference difference between having a short waterline and a long waterline. It doesn’t really bother me to anchor out in the middle of the bay if I need to stop to fix something. It’s not really a big deal. It would be on a small boat though. I agree on that.

This is why I always go for boats with long waterline lengths. This is when you need them.

And let me tell you, here are some things I’ve run into.

*cabin soles floating around and had to fix the fresh water pump
*total loss of hydraulic steering
*failed motors more times than I can count

All I do is stop and fix it. You don’t have to be in an “anchorage “ to fix a problem.

You just stop wherever you have to in the best sort of Anchorage you can find. Any spot will do.

If the shackle fails I’ll put a new one on. Or better yet, I’ll just tie a bowline.

I also still, and have for many years, complained about when people say they were “blown off course “. I still find that to be a bunch of BS. I’m sorry but I really do. You don’t get blown off course. You make a lot of mistakes that move you off course. That’s about it. Otherwise why would you be blown off course? If you are in control of the boat, it’s going where you decide to go, albeit admittedly more slowly.

But still, that’s your own fault for cutting things to close. You should never expect to be selling until sunset. That’s just foolish. That’s poor planning.

And I don’t mean you in particular. I mean everyone. It’s foolish. If you play on your passages correctly, you don’t have any of these problems.
You'll see.

You say you plan.

Based on what, the wind forecast?

It's wrong all the time.

As far as where you anchor, you just mentioned a week or so ago about getting a bit queasy at anchor.

Fixing things while blowing chunks on the way to get tools gets old pretty fast.

After a few nights anchored in a bad spot water line or not, you'll be ready for a nice anchorage

Photos are of the anchorage I went for when I sailed until 10:30 - 11:00 pm. And nothing was broken.

Sail distance was 55-60 miles.
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Old 31-12-2022, 11:16   #105
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Re: Radar or AIS to rouse me when in a stupor?

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Another home run here. Wow. Some good posts this morning.

Curious. I can’t do 65 foot bridges. What’s your mast height?
Admittedly I haven’t really planned a coastal trip yet with this boat up the East Coast. That’s for spring. But I was imagining I would have some time offshore overnight.

Also, there is a bit of a backstory that’s important to remember. I think I mentioned it in the first post. Maybe I didn’t.

I’m putting a rig on right now to see if I like boats anymore. I don’t even remember. The plan is to mess around in Florida for the winter and head up north with it in the spring. Traveling solo and doing this myself and seeing if this is something I still like or not. It’s been a long time. And especially doing it solo. I have to see if I like it solo. I have only done it with girlfriends and wives before.

So I’m just trying to get the boat together enough to figure out if I want to continue or sell it.

There is still another couple years doing the interior And plenty of cosmetic hurricane damage and Worker damage to fix on the exterior.

Trying to determine how I would like to spend my life moving forward.
I'm 64.5 ft. I removed 2 ft from the mast so that I could fit under bridges (I'm sure that could be controversial...).

HOWEVER, doing the ICW is super slow, and rarely any sailing, so we usually only duck in and make actual distance outside. I think we maybe only did 100 miles in the ICW on the whole trip from Maine to Florida. It was because I didn't like the offshore wind conditions, but we still wanted to make some progress.

Also, even if you're going to sell the boat, I would imagine that a buyer on a boat that size would expect an AIS and a Radar, or ask for a significant discount to have them fitted.

They would still be greatly beneficial even coastal sailing without overnights. I assume that you will still have either early mornings or later evenings when you'll be sailing in the dark, even if it's not overnight.
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