Radar or AIS to rouse me when in a stupor?

[Ballsnall]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

I would get the AIS. The radar will drive you nuts with false alarms and you will turn it off. Offshore over 95% of the targets will have AIS. Inshore you have no business sleeping.

In addition, the AIS takes a lot less power.

Bingo.

AIS is a must for any offshore solo passages.

For coastal, radar is highly recommended and I would rate it over a chart plotter.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Ballsnall

Bingo.

AIS is a must for any offshore solo passages.

For coastal, radar is highly recommended and I would rate it over a chart plotter.

Wow! Now that’s a bold statement.

Radar over a chart plotter

[Ballsnall]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Wow! Now that’s a bold statement.

Radar over a chart plotter

I've seen too many people run into things with a chart plotter.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Ballsnall

I've seen too many people run into things with a chart plotter.

Ahhhh. The classic face down in the electronics problem?

[rslifkin]

In my mind, radar vs a chartplotter isn't a question. They serve such completely different purposes. A chartplotter is there to tell you what should be there. That guides your eyes as far as what to look for in terms of buoys, etc.

Radar tells you what is there. Primarily for situations where your visibility is limited, or you need to know how fast something is moving, or some other information your eyes can't provide on their own.

The only time running truly head down in the electronics is viable is in heavy fog. If it's foggy enough that you can't see outside anyway, the information from your (hopefully good) electronics is all you have.

[krid2000]

Originally Posted by Chotu

https://www.raymarine.com/marine-rad...omes/quantum2/
This Doppler radar essentially does everything AIS does except transmit your location. This is now a no-brainer of a question. This Doppler radar has everything. The AIS is definitely secondary to this.

Do you already have the EV-1 with your autopilot? If not, some functions are limited such as radar target tracking.

Dirk

[Pizzazz]

I strongly recommend radar and AIS transmit and that is what I have on the boat today. A few years ago I was running night passages in the Channel Islands, also single handed, like Chotu.

AIS transmit (also VHF DSC) is by far more useful if you want to get a good night's sleep. The vast majority of ships that sail at night (including fishermen) maintain watch, visual, AIS, radar. They will see and alert you. The chance of two small boats, both not running watch, colliding with each other at night is very, very small and the outcome of the collision is unlikely to be catastrophic.

So, you plan should be set the course, set the autopilot alarms, set up the AIS alarms turn on the VHF radio and go to sleep. Wake up four hours later fully rested, ready to enter Two Harbors, for example.

If you add radar to the equation, the following happens: you spend a lot of time adjusting sensitivity and sea state and guard zones until you realize that it does not work unless the sea is totally flat (never happens). The radar will wake you up every 10-15 minutes due to wave reflections. You wake up half asleep, see some dots on the display and start worrying if this is a wave or a small fishing boat. Start adjusting the screen again. Now you are fully awake and unable to fall asleep. You will arrive exhausted and not necessarily safer.

p.s. I am not advocating not maintaining watch, just responding to your initial question.

[IslandHopper]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Wow! Now that’s a bold statement.

Radar over a chart plotter

Nothing bold about it at all, I still work on ships that don't have ECDIS/Chart Plotters but all have Radar, and if i had to choose one over the other i would choose Radar in a heartbeat.

If you know how to use them then you would know why

[SailFastTri]

Originally Posted by Mark Johnson

This is, imo, a no brainer.
No technology relieves us of our ethical and legal requirement to stand watch 24/7. We all have the right to assess and take our own risks, but not to decide on the amount of risks that are ok, and fair to other sailors of small boats.

I have had several very close calls at sea, from folks who had no one at the helm, at night.

Getting temporary crew for a crossing is fairly easy, and once there, a single handler can safely take day hops from island to island, or anchorage to anchorage.

What is safest for you is the wrong question. The right question is, what is most responsible?
How do we live our own dream, without it being at the expense of others?

This
@chotu I appreciate your transparency and concerns about money, but there are plenty of crew finder sites and saving money in safety might be shortsighted. I think the right answer to your question is above, and I’d get both radar and AIS (I have).
Most of the comments in this thread are true BUT a radar guard zone will not be a reliable substitute for a human lookout. If you set it for long range you’ll miss small targets, and shorter range with high enough sensitivity for smaller targets will alert on a lot of clutter. Tune out the clutter and you can miss small targets.
PS, I currently own the latest generation Raymarine Doppler radar and I’m not impressed. There are pros and cons, but I much prefer the B&G 4G broadband radar I had on my last boat because it’s better at the resolution of small-targets close-in. This is needed to avoid nearby small craft in limited visibility such as fog.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by krid2000

Do you already have the EV-1 with your autopilot? If not, some functions are limited such as radar target tracking.

Dirk

Yes. It’s an integral part of the entire Raymarine system and especially the autopilot.

Nothing works without that component.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by SailFastTri

This
@chotu I appreciate your transparency and concerns about money, but there are plenty of crew finder sites and saving money in safety might be shortsighted. I think the right answer to your question is above, and I’d get both radar and AIS (I have).
Most of the comments in this thread are true BUT a radar guard zone will not be a reliable substitute for a human lookout. If you set it for long range you’ll miss small targets, and shorter range with high enough sensitivity for smaller targets will alert on a lot of clutter. Tune out the clutter and you can miss small targets.
PS, I currently own the latest generation Raymarine Doppler radar and I’m not impressed. There are pros and cons, but I much prefer the B&G 4G broadband radar I had on my last boat because it’s better at the resolution of small-targets close-in. This is needed to avoid nearby small craft in limited visibility such as fog.

Hmmmm. Interesting that you don’t really like the new radar. I was looking at that one that looks like a T as well. I assume that is the same thing that is inside the dome these days.

What do you find that you don’t like? Is it just not an improvement over the previous generations? It sounds like the resolution isn’t very good? And the ability to differentiate between various scatter and vessels?

I’m not taking strangers on my boat. No way no how. So that’s out of the question. I will point out again that nobody said that this is a substitute for watch. That’s been repeated over and over and over again starting with the very first post.

Also, you, and a lot of people, seem to have missed the main point. What I asked was which one to get first. Not which one to get.

As it turns out, as I posted above, the decision is to get none of these things. Nothing. I’m not getting either of them. I’m going to start using the boat and let the boat tell me what it wants. I nearly forgot that’s the correct approach when fitting or refitting a boat.

I’ve already gone 35 years of sailing without them, so I think a couple more months will be OK. Ha ha.

[SailFastTri]

@chotu imho “neither” is the wrong choice. Each has benefits in safety and watch awareness. E.g radar can alert you to unlit vessels and assist you in any low-visibility situation (excluding heavy rain), and AIS makes you unmistakably visible to large fast-moving ships that might otherwise overlook and run down a small boat in a big sea, and it can provide a more reliable guard alert than radar that’s based on CPA (calculated closest point of approach). AIS is also less expensive.
Regardless which you choose you will improve your safety. If you choose none, you are choosing to be less situationally aware.

[SailFastTri]

PS - which one first? I’d definitely choose AIS in tropical and semitropical areas for offshore. There are areas with concentrated ship traffic (e.g. Mona Passage) where you can easily be run down by fast moving ships if they can’t see you. AIS makes all vessels clearly aware of speed, direction, distance, and automatically calculates dangerous CPAs.
In near shore areas with frequent fog and small craft that might be unlit I’d choose radar.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by SailFastTri

PS - which one first? I’d definitely choose AIS in tropical and semitropical areas for offshore. There are areas with concentrated ship traffic (e.g. Mona Passage) where you can easily be run down by fast moving ships if they can’t see you. AIS makes all vessels clearly aware of speed, direction, distance, and automatically calculates dangerous CPAs.
In near shore areas with frequent fog and small craft that might be unlit I’d choose radar.

Excellent!

Thanks for the input on which one to get first.

I had posted this thread originally because I thought I needed to get the radar way up the Mast and I needed the Rigger. As it turns out, it’s not really that high up if I do the mast. And I can also mount it in plenty of other places as well. So the concern to hurry up and decide has been pushed off thankfully.

This way, I can get none of them while I am just hopping around Florida this winter and get a feel for which one I want first.

This thread, and all of the advice and it will of course play a big role. But I also need to get a feel for how much distance I can cover during daylight. No idea. Never sailed this boat yet.

So if I can make some really good distance and stop into places for the night, I am in much better shape and won’t have to do many overnights. Using the boat will let me know.

[SailFastTri]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Hmmmm. Interesting that you don’t really like the new radar. I was looking at that one that looks like a T as well. I assume that is the same thing that is inside the dome these days.

What do you find that you don’t like? Is it just not an improvement over the previous generations? It sounds like the resolution isn’t very good? And the ability to differentiate between various scatter and vessels?

I’m not taking strangers on my boat. No way no how. So that’s out of the question. I will point out again that nobody said that this is a substitute for watch. That’s been repeated over and over and over again starting with the very first post.

Snip.

The open array radars have higher resolution than the dome arrays. They are also more likely to snag lines, which is obviously problematic on a sailboat.
What I don’t like? It’s fine, but the B&G (Navico) broadband works better close in (under a mile). I sail in New England where we have frequent fog. When all boats have presumably slowed down and we are near shore and visibility is under 1/4 mile I’m more concerned about the guy in a small open fishing boat that’s close to my boat than a commercial ship who can also see my AIS signal.
As for strangers, I get it That introduces another type of risk.