NMEA 2000/ Airmar DST 810 help

[mikebikeboy]

Email to Airmar earlier today:

Thanks for the reply. I'm talking to Navico now, who don't seem to know why so many of the DST810's are failing. A quick search on google and there are lots of reports of these units crapping out literally within hours of installation---pretty much what happened to mine. Have you all managed to figure out what the problem is? At first I thought it was a voltage issue, but the documentation states that the DST810 works within a 9v-16v range.

Their response:

Good aftenoon Mike,
A certain production range of DST810 was identified as presenting a variety of failures, loss of depth and N2K network issues, but current production units are unaffected.

My reply:

Thanks for the information, Support Team. However, I would like to know if I can find out which serial numbers are included in the production range that has the failures. When Navico sends me another unit how will I be assured that it's from the newer production range that has addressed the issues? The reason I'm so concerned is because I am about to embark on a big trip on the boat and would appreciate knowing that the transducer will be reliable.. If it goes out while I'm somewhere remote on the Mississippi River that could be a big problem.

Will keep you updated on what I find out. At least Airmar admits there was a problem... but shouldn't there be a recall? Why are people still able to purchase these defective units? It could be a real disaster! In my case, I'll be going down the Mississippi River which having a depth readout is paramount as charts can't be trusted, because the river levels are always changing.

Anyone know of a cheapish backup depthfinder that I could rig up in case this Airmar DST810 hunka fails again?

[mikebikeboy]

Originally Posted by GOGO Gdaget

Are all of you pushing these problems back to either the manufacture you bought these thru or going direct to Airmar or Gemeco ( Airmar's retail arm). The info I have from Airmar training is that the DST810 really doesn't like voltages over 13.5vdc. If we dont advise them of these problems they cant fix it. Its a small industry should be easy to get something changed.

is this the sort of thing you are talking about to protect the electronics?

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by GOGO Gdaget

Well Im not 100% sure about their certification process at Airmar but from what I could gather the power failure is on the front end of the DST810 which also controls power to the CAN controller thus just playing havoc across the whole device.
The good news I got from Garmin is that they know which units are affected by serial numbers which of course they got from Airmar.
Its also a very good idea to use a voltage conditioner as many of the newest electronic gadgets don't do all that well with wild swings in the supply voltage.

The DST810 is specified for 9-16VDC. If it doesn't work in that range, the design is broken. There is just no excuse for it.

[tanglewood]

Originally Posted by GOGO Gdaget

The info I have from Airmar training is that the DST810 really doesn't like voltages over 13.5vdc. If we dont advise them of these problems they cant fix it. Its a small industry should be easy to get something changed.

WTF? The spec is up to 16V, and a typical 12V battery will run over that on a regulator basis. 13.5V is unfit for purpose.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by mikebikeboy

Email to Airmar earlier today:







Their response:







My reply:







Will keep you updated on what I find out.

...

Yes please. We are coming close to a moment when we will have to decide what to buy. The DST810 would be exactly right except for this issue.

[GOGO Gdaget]

Okay so I may have got a bit of wrong data during the Airmar Training. Here is an update after speaking with my person at Garmin.
Airmar changed a supplier for a component where it didn't tolerate voltage spikes over 16vdc. They tried to fix this in software but then just made a change in production. Garmin seems to have a good handle on this and they said they have a way to see what versions could fail and which are good.
Not sure why Navico doesn't have a clue. I also checked with Raymarine and they are aware there is a issue with these and is working with Airmar on stock.
It seems like there was a bad batch and Airmar has dealt with it but if your nmea 2000 bus is seeing anything over 16vdc expect failed devices in your future.

[mikebikeboy]

Originally Posted by GILow

Yes please. We are coming close to a moment when we will have to decide what to buy. The DST810 would be exactly right except for this issue.

While I exchanged 2 emails within hours of eachother yesterday with Airmar, I'm hearing crickets to my final question about revealing to me which serial numbers are the affected units. They know this is lawsuit territory and are being quiet is my guess.

I jjust ordered up a Hawkeye DepthTrax to install as backup should the DST810 fail again. I love the triducer product but unfortunately my trust in it has been destroyed.

[GOGO Gdaget]

If you have the tag serial number Garmin seems to have a way to track these. You could call or contact Garmin they are pretty helpful. Maybe Raymarine has the same tool I just didn't ask the rep.

As for power we have used these in the past as they have the ability to have set points for over and under voltage. The are pretty good for not killing a battery if a customer isn't paying attention.
https://tbs-electronics.com/product/...rotect-relays/

[torrmundi]

Airmar has a customer bulletin on the over-voltage issue: http://https://assets-7484b3de52.cdn...rt-Sensors.pdf

This certainly might cause multiple failures in some boats (with 'noisy' 12V mains) while other boats are unaffected. As another person pointed out, a dedicated 12v-12v converter should remove noise caused by other boat sources like engine starters, refrigerator compressors, winches, watermakers, etc.

[GILow]

Originally Posted by torrmundi

Airmar has a customer bulletin on the over-voltage issue: http://https://assets-7484b3de52.cdn...rt-Sensors.pdf

This certainly might cause multiple failures in some boats (with 'noisy' 12V mains) while other boats are unaffected. As another person pointed out, a dedicated 12v-12v converter should remove noise caused by other boat sources like engine starters, refrigerator compressors, winches, watermakers, etc.

That link seems broken, any chance you could review it for us?

[torrmundi]

The link just worked for me. But here it is:

Customer Bulletin
Bulletin No: 23-1011
Date: October 11, 2023
Attn: Airmar Customers
Subject: Voltage Spikes
Damaging Smart Sensors
Effective: Immediately

Airmar Smart™ Sensor Advisory:
Voltage Spikes Damaging Smart™ Sensors
Airmar Smart™ Sensor Advisory:
Airmar has observed a rise in failures of Smart™ Sensors with a depth output that occurred
in units manufactured between February 2022 and June 2023. These failures manifest as a
lack of depth reporting, a loss of network visibility, device malfunction, or complete
transducer failure.
Airmar Smart Transducers are designed to operate within the NMEA2000 input voltage
specification of 9-16VDC. After a thorough investigation, we have determined that the root
cause of the reported failures is voltage spikes exceeding 16 volts on the sensor's power
input. These spikes exceed the voltage rating of a mosfet in the sensor's power amplifier
circuit.
During 2022 and early 2023, Airmar experienced a severe supply chain shortage from the
mosfet manufacturer that we had used for many years. This necessitated using a second
supplier with a mosfet having the same published specification as the primary supplier. This
alternate part does meet its maximum input voltage specification. However, unbeknown to
Airmar, the original component had a voltage spec far in excess of its published spec. In
summary, alternate mosfet is less tolerant to voltage spikes exceeding the NMEA2000
specification.
Although Airmar’s Smart sensors meet the NMEA specification, once the root cause of the
failure was understood, Airmar issued two firmware updates to improve tolerance of voltage
spikes. The first update was released in July 2022, followed by a second one in April 2023.
These firmware updates do provide additional protection for boats vulnerable to voltage
spikes or operating on unregulated NMEA2000 networks. Once the primary supplier's
mosfet became available again, production reverted to it. As of June 1, 2023, all sensor
shipments now incorporate the primary supplier's mosfet.
We acknowledge that notifying our valued customers about this issue was delayed, as
identifying the root cause required an extensive investigation. Going forward, Airmar is developing new hardware and software that will dramatically increase tolerance of voltage
spikes and other overvoltage conditions. Further firmware enhancements will be
implemented in the coming months as a continuous improvement. Please note that
updating firmware in the field is not feasible.

[GILow]

Thank you. That’s very helpful to know.

[GILow]

A follow up just for anyone researching this issue. Airmar support sent this in response to my question about identifying affected devices based on their serial number:

There is not a defined serial number range. All Airmar products have the month/year they were manufactured printed on their cable tag. Anything made after May 2023 would have no issue. Anything made in May or prior, you would only see an "issue" if you have voltage spikes on your network exceeding the NMEA2000 standard, which 97% of customers do not have.

A reasonable response I think. Certainly my local chandlery were aware of the issue and were confident of getting hold of one of the post-May devices. They said there had been a recall of old stock.

[kaz911]

Just a general FYI:

NMEA certification is an "internal process" where you certify the product will stand up to communicating correctly. You can outsource that process - or buy the certification tools yourself and do everything in-house. (Pretty much like CE certification) - you then sign a piece of paper with a test report stating your product is N2k certified.

But having supply chain issues in the Electronics industry is not news. Having replacement parts that do not "follow" their own specifications is not news either. Having "fake counterfeit " components is not news either.

What I do not understand is - why did it take Airmar SO LONG to figure it out. Internal simulation tests should have caught it. Increasing customer feedback should have caught it.

I'm a bit stumped that a usually great HW engineering company can screw up so badly. Airmar has NEVER been great at "end user software" IMO but their "proven" HW (apart from Ultrasonic) is usually always "turn on and forget"

[asimegusta]

Hello fellow DST810 sufferers,
I have just read through the thread and must say my experience has been the same as others.
My second DST810 just shorted out after 8 days. It was a replacement sent by Furuno for my first DST810 which failed just a few hours after install in February 2024.

Now, the second DST810 first lost depth measurement , while speed and temperature still displayed. Then 15 minutes later the NMEA2000 fuse blew and the display went blank.
We confirmed the issue by disconnecting everything except the DST810 which blew another fuse. We disconnected the DST810 and the NMEA2000 network and the display work perfectly.

Back on the phone tomorrow about getting a second replacement
The problem seems to continue to exist in 2024 unless I was shipped older units.

They reseller also tried to put suspicion on my NMEA2000 network setup. My network consists of just the DST810, the wind tranducer and an Fi70 display, all brand new installed in February 2024.
This second failed DST810 has definitely shaken my confidence in the reliability of the DST810. Can't sail without a depth sounder around here in Southwest Florida.