HF/SSB antenna inside Dyneema lifelines

[Brian.D]

Why not try a 40M hamstick on your rail? The railing will act as your counterpoise. As S/V Illusion said, you're going to waste your time. Remember, Orville and Wilbur Wright wasted their time and look what it got them. LOL

Also remember this, experimenting is not a waste of time if you gained some knowledge from it. Experiment on. mon ami!

[Celestialsailor]

I've been doing this stuff since 1983. I have tried a lot of different trendy ideas and I have to say simplicity is the best...at least for me. I use an MFJ manual tuner, a back stay and connect my ground plane to one un bonded thru-hull and a 2"x10"x1/4" plate outside the hull and flat copper from that inside the boat to the ground on the rig. It just works.
Here is an article regarding ground plans of a boat. All the 100sq.ft. sheathing just isn't worth it.

[Adelie]

I would think that the metal wrapping around the antenna at each point it goes thru a stantion would affect antenna performance.

Also there’s a question of whether the horizontal polarization of the antenna would affect reception at either end.

I have opinions about the answers to either of these issues, I’m weak on antenna effects.

[Adelie]

I would think that the metal wrapping around the antenna at each point it goes thru a stantion would affect antenna performance.

Also there’s a question of whether the horizontal polarization of the antenna would affect reception at either end.

I have opinions about the answers to either of these issues, I’m weak on antenna effects.

[Adelie]

I would think that the metal wrapping around the antenna at each point it goes thru a stantion would affect antenna performance.

Also there’s a question of whether the horizontal polarization of the antenna would affect reception at either end.

I have opinions about the answers to either of these issues, I’m weak on antenna effects.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Brian.D

Why not try a 40M hamstick on your rail? The railing will act as your counterpoise.

I would hope I can figure out something that is better than that.

As S/V Illusion said, you're going to waste your time. Remember, Orville and Wilbur Wright wasted their time and look what it got them. LOL Also remember this, experimenting is not a waste of time if you gained some knowledge from it. Experiment on. mon ami!

+1

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

I've been doing this stuff since 1983. I have tried a lot of different trendy ideas and I have to say simplicity is the best...at least for me. I use an MFJ manual tuner, a back stay and connect my ground plane to one un bonded thru-hull and a 2"x10"x1/4" plate outside the hull and flat copper from that inside the boat to the ground on the rig. It just works.

You're in salt water, I'm not.

Here is an article regarding ground plans of a boat. All the 100sq.ft. sheathing just isn't worth it.

Link?

Originally Posted by Adelie

I would think that the metal wrapping around the antenna at each point it goes thru a stantion would affect antenna performance.

It will affect performance albeit in ways that are difficult to predict and perhaps less than you might think because: the stanchions are at right angles to the antenna, are not electrically connected to it, and are electrically short compared to the wavelengths in use.

Also there’s a question of whether the horizontal polarization of the antenna would affect reception at either end.

Ionospheric reflection scrambles the polarization of radio waves.


The main effect would be a slight reduction in received atmospheric noise because the noise from nearby lightning strikes (near enough that the direct wave is received, 100 miles or so) is mostly vertically polarized.


All good questions and insights, thanks.

[Adelie]

My point was not that there was a stanchion in proximity to the antenna, but that it completely surrounds the antenna with a conductor.

[S/V Illusion]

Originally Posted by Brian.D

Why not try a 40M hamstick on your rail? The railing will act as your counterpoise. As S/V Illusion said, you're going to waste your time. Remember, Orville and Wilbur Wright wasted their time and look what it got them. LOL

Also remember this, experimenting is not a waste of time if you gained some knowledge from it. Experiment on. mon ami!

About as useful as putting wings on an elephant and experimenting how well it flies.

[team karst]

I ran 40m and 75m hamsticks on a 27’ boat. Quite lossy; i could grab them and feel the temperature rise. If you had to use them, use the 1kw versions.

[BocaIII]

Love out of box ideas...this one qualifies!
I do have some ideas and comments
Can you do a simple sketch and send to me via email...w4grj@satterfield.org
Thanks
Jack
W4GRJ

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by Jammer

You're in salt water, I'm not.
Link?

Sorry...Here is the link... https://www.sfbaysss.org/resource/do...GordonWest.pdf


I always think all boats are in salt water and maybe you lived inland.


Another possible option is the KISS ground plane system. You would have to contact them and ask the salt water question.


https://seatech.systems/product/kiss...-plane-system/



https://www.hamshop.com/marifoons/ki...oundplane.html


Let me add to the mix here since we are talking antennas. I have used a separate wire up to the top of the mast and not a back stay insulator.

[j.g.evans]

It sounds like you will have a good antenna to talk to fish and god. You need a lower take off angle.
I used the back stay on my 2 boats. I did many simulations that included the rigging and mast and with and without insulators. All the antenna patterns were ugly at some frequency due to re-radiation of all the rigging. I chose the simplest approaches and used my back stays without insulators. ( I did not want to cut my rod rigging.) I worked.
Re ground: On on one boat I ran foil to the lead keel. Along the path I connected to the AL fuel tank, engine and capacitor coupled to through hulls. (I did not want any DC currents to them.) The best arrangement I had was on a second boat where I had access to the hull in the stern. I used 1' wide CU used in construction. I tack soldered along the strips to make a large ground sheet. I pressed this onto the hull and my junk kept it hugging the hull. This made one plate of a capacitor where the fiberglass hull was the dielectric and seawater the other plate. I forgot what capacitance I achieved but it was good. I found no need to connect to the lead keel in addition.
I hope this info give you some ideas.

[drdoyle]

Stick with the backstay antenna. It is the most rugged and effective simple solution. I would have concerns about someone grabbing the lifeline/safety rail and get an rf burn. I'm on a power bost and use a home made vertical antenna with a capacitive top metalized ball and about the last foot below the ball the wire is wrapped around the fiberglass poleabout 20 times with quarter inch spacing. Sometimes when at a fixed location i use a center fed dipole inverted "V" and have on occasion a end fed long wire . Always with a tunner for low swr.

[sailcub]

Get a GAM antenna, mine worked flawlessly on my Cat Morgan 440....didn't need to cut backstay...

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

I always think all boats are in salt water and maybe you lived inland.

Right, for clarity, in case I didn't mention this upthread, I will be based in the Duluth area for the next few years, and will be cruising on Lake Superior and the rest of the Great Lakes. At some point we may exit through the St. Lawrence Seaway or the Mississippi (via trucking the boat overland the short distance from Duluth to Stillwater). Lake Superior is remote and there is not cell phone service everywhere. While the USCG can mostly be reached via VHF, because they have two dozen 300' tall antennas dotted along teh shore, it can be difficult to talk to anybody else.

Another possible option is the KISS ground plane system. You would have to contact them and ask the salt water question.

I am skeptical of those and believe that they mostly work through capacitive coupling to seawater.

Let me add to the mix here since we are talking antennas. I have used a separate wire up to the top of the mast and not a back stay insulator.

Originally Posted by sailcub

Get a GAM antenna, mine worked flawlessly on my Cat Morgan 440....didn't need to cut backstay...

I did the math (and others have too and have come to the same conclusion) and there's a great deal of capacitive coupling between the separate wire and the backstay, even if they are separated by a couple of inches. In essence you end up lighting up the whole rig. Some people do that deliberately and just attach a wire to one of the bolts for the backstay chainplate.