Help with autopilot

[Tom1340]

My alpha 3000 just died after more than 30 years of great service. I am a single hander and need to get underway soon. I hope to have a new system in place within a week. This leaves me little time for research. Can anyone advise me on which drive (ram) and which pilot (computer) would be good for a 38 ft sloop. I do not need a sophisticated system, but reliability is critical. I am thinking motor operated ram, since I’m already wired for it. I have B&g instruments on board and a garmin chart plotter, so I’m thinking one of those manufacturers might be good? I am not well informed about autopilots, and at the moment I’m pretty desperate to get this fixed quickly. Thanks for any guidance. Tom

[Tom1340]

Bump. Surly someone out there is proficient on auto pilots and is willing to share knowledge.

[sv_pelagia]

I am NOT an expert (on autopilots [emoji6])... but here is my very recent experience:

My 30+ years old (and excellent) Wagner autopilot died at end of the season 2019. After trying to revive it in 2020, I decided it was time to get a new, "modern" autopilot.

I chose to go with a company whose primary focus (until recently) is AUTOPILOTS, and coincidently, local. I chose COMNAV (based in Richmond, ComNav has operated for decades, and is especially used on commercial vessels ).

Being local was especially helpful, as I was able to visit them, at talk with the actual people involved with the autopilots. Even for someone not "local", importantly, they have been very responsive to my emails and phone calls. This accessibility is very important to me!

They were very helpful in advising me with combining my still-useful Wagner autopilot hydraulic pump with the new ComNav "P2" system. This might also be relevant for your situation (ie your autopilot ram or linear drive or whatever might still be useful).

I just finally completed installation and first power up: it worked! BUT, I still have sea trials/calibration to complete. (ComNav folks just wrote me saying they were there for me should I run into any issues with the sea trial.)

Check them out. They'll answer any questions specific to your setup you might have:

http://www.comnavmarine.ca/

[skipmac]

My boat came with an old Alpha AP that immediately died, except for the drive. The drive was a Raymarine Linear Mechanical drive, type 1. I highly recommend the drive. If yours was similar but died replacing the drive with a new one would be easy as all the mounts and brackets for older units are the same as the new ones.

For the computer and the rest I went with a mixed Simrad and B&G system. They are now part of the same company and most of the bits are identical except for the logo on the box. It also works quite well with the Raymarine drive.

Love my setup. If you decide to go that way let me know and I'll give more details.

[sailormed]

Contact JEFA in Denmark. They are a marine supplier for everything rudder/autopilot related. They supply the units used and sold by Raymarine/ Simrad/etc.....
Very customer oriented and knowledgeable , top quality products. I am not related in any way, just a satisfied customer.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by sailormed

Contact JEFA in Denmark. They are a marine supplier for everything rudder/autopilot related. They supply the units used and sold by Raymarine/ Simrad/etc.....
Very customer oriented and knowledgeable , top quality products. I am not related in any way, just a satisfied customer.

Agree. JEFA seems to have a great reputation and, as you say, make many of the drives sold by other AOP makers.

However I didn't see a JEFA that was identical to the Ray linear mechanical so I stayed with that for ease of installation of a new drive.

If I had not had that consideration I would have gone with JEFA.

[skipmac]

By the way, I also have a Garmin plotter and B&G instruments and all seem to play well together.

[donradcliffe]

What died on the Alpha? My experience was that the drive was a aircraft wing flap acutator--very high quality, but the part that died first was the feedback unit. The brain was dumber than a post, and you will be much happier with a modern brain and the original drive.

If you need a new drive and want reliability, do NOT get a Raymarine mechanical drive with its plastic gears. The most reliable drives are electro-hydraulic units, like Navico's Simrad HDL2000.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...d2000&_sacat=0

[Tom1340]

Skipmac, your solution really seems to check all my boxes! Which computer did you go with? B&g is recommending a NAC3 for me. Did you need to install a separate rudder position feedback device? Any info you can share will be welcome. Tom

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Tom1340

Skipmac, your solution really seems to check all my boxes! Which computer did you go with? B&g is recommending a NAC3 for me. Did you need to install a separate rudder position feedback device? Any info you can share will be welcome. Tom

I have a 42' boat with a barn door rudder which takes a bit of work so being of the mind that in this situation more is better I went with the NAC3. The 2 might have worked but I was right at the upper end of it's rated capacity. Part of the decision making process was the NAC3 would be running at a much lower percentage of its rating so would run cooler and less stressed on a long passage.

The Simrad/B&G system networked very well (my first attempt at an N2K network) so I think it would easily get heading info from any sensor on the network. My son in law had the identical setup on his sport fisherman but no place for a rudder position indicator so went with the virtual rudder sense option on the computer which worked OK but tended to run a slight zig zag course. I installed the B&G sensor and it was a pretty easy job and holds a dead straight course.

I also went with the Precision 9 compass that does a great job.

Regarding the linear mechanical drive, I believe the newer units use all metal gears, not plastic.

[Tom1340]

Skipmac, I have the same problem as your son. No place to mount a rudder position sensor without first building a new platform in a very tight space. My AP drive platform will easily accommodate an rf device, but it is 27” from the rudder shaft/armature, and I understand the B&g rf25 sensor should be less than 13” distant. I think there is a solution to this dilemma, but I haven’t found it. Will try to talk to B&g tomorrow. Do you have separate platforms for your drive and sensor? On my alpha, the rudder sensor was integral to the drive unit. Tom

[Svsumurun]

If you are looking for simple and easy .. just get a CRT and be done with it .. no interfacing , but it's really simple and works great

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Tom1340

Skipmac, I have the same problem as your son. No place to mount a rudder position sensor without first building a new platform in a very tight space. My AP drive platform will easily accommodate an rf device, but it is 27” from the rudder shaft/armature, and I understand the B&g rf25 sensor should be less than 13” distant. I think there is a solution to this dilemma, but I haven’t found it. Will try to talk to B&g tomorrow. Do you have separate platforms for your drive and sensor? On my alpha, the rudder sensor was integral to the drive unit. Tom

First, I have found tech support from Navico (parent company to B&G and Simrad) to be excellent. Most calls I was connected quickly to a very knowledgeable tech (probably an engineer from his expertise). A couple of times I had to leave a message but was called back very quickly.

My sensor is mounted on the other side of the quadrant from the linear drive but if there was room don't see why it couldn't be mounted by the drive. Also the distance limit I think you could cheat on without harm. Thinking back to my installation I'm guessing the limit is based on the flexibility of the threaded rod that connects the sensor to the quadrant plus the potential for the connector on the end of the rod to twist or jam at the sensor arm. If you have a spot a little farther away don't see why with a little creative modification you couldn't extend that some. Maybe splice in a larger, stiffer rod in the middle as an extender? I think as long as the arm on the RF sensor isn't pushed beyond it's limits you could get by.

[jamhass]

How did your Alpha die? If the ram died, is it the motor or the rudder position unit -- which is just a 10k-ohm pot, easily replaced. If the control unit, you can drive the Alpha ram with other controllers, just need one capable of handling 15 amps.

When my Alpha died, I drove it with a Raymarine ??-30 (forgot the exact unit, but the -30 supports a 30 amp drive) course computer. A little fiddling with a microswitch and relay took care of safeguarding the ram when (mechanically) disconnected from the rudder (as Alpha APs do.) Ran this way for 10+ years, never an issue.

If interested, PM me and I can provide some additional details.

[Tom1340]

Jamhass, a well meaning guest forced the wheel counter to the engaged autopilot. I opened up the AP case and it is full of metal shavings. I know the feedback unit is destroyed, maybe more. I don’t want to invest in an old, unsupported system. I’m hoping to come out with something with decades of life in it.