Ham Radio in a Ketch

[Sailor_Hutch]

" In the Middle East, if you are caught with a scanner, let alone a transmitter you will charged with spying; punishable by hanging......"

Thanks for the tip/FYI to keep me away from that end of the Mediterranean! As if the rockets weren't enough!!!!

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Hmm, I'll look in the archives, but if it's "tampering", then isn't it a simple question of whether or not the marine SSB radio is capable of doing ham bands out of the box, or is designed to do them? If the M802 is delivered with the capability, then who's "tampering"? Then no one touches the SSB capabilities in order to also use the radio as a licensed amateur.

ISTR it was a long and not so friendly thread. And like so many had little to do with the real world. I think the icom specs just have ssb bands with no mention of the ham bands so if you are particularly picky you could argue that opening up the ham bands, even if just a software switch, is altering the radio and so wouldn't be officially type approved afterwards even if switched back. Not that anyone would know or care.

(hope I don't start it off again.. )

[VieuxMalin]

Originally Posted by Goudurix

Hi VieuxMalin,

My boat is moored in the North Sea Channel (Zeebrugge, Belgium) so the Med is quite far away....

Although I have chartered twice in the Med (Greece and Turkey).

If you have trouble finding an affordable professional, and if you are in a location easily reachable by low-cost flight, don't hesitate. I like these kind of work and would do it for free, just for the fun.

Good luck, good sailing,

Jan
ON3ZTT

Thanks, Jan.
You know, my vessel flies a belgian flag

Ashore in Preveza (Ionian Marine) right now, already called a pro-installer. But thanks for your kind offer.

Ciao!
Ben
s/v Vieux Malin

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I am confused -- I thought that many marine SSB's will work on ham bands with little or no modification, like the ubiquitous Icom M802, for example. I have been told that M802's make fairly crude ham rigs, but isn't it legal to use them for both marine SSB and amateur radio if you have all the necessary licenses (marine station license, marine long range operator's license, ham ticket)?

No because marine radios are type approved, modifying them removes that type approval

Dave

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Hmm, I'll look in the archives, but if it's "tampering", then isn't it a simple question of whether or not the marine SSB radio is capable of doing ham bands out of the box, or is designed to do them? If the M802 is delivered with the capability, then who's "tampering"? Then no one touches the SSB capabilities in order to also use the radio as a licensed amateur.

No the 802 is not out of the box opened for ham bands. Doing so voids your ships radio license. The radio will not receive type approval of it has ham bands out of the box. Many radios can be reprogrammed to do all sorts of things. But that doesn't make them legal

Dave

[donradcliffe]

So if its illegal to use the 802 for both ham and marine use, you might as well go with an opened up ham rig and save some money, like the OP.

[Cheechako]

"Doctored radios etc, ( it is illegal to modify a marine SSB to transmit on Amateur bands, except in an emergency) are a problem all over the place, they give the activity a bad name, encourage rogue operation thats sometimes causes interference and provides the authorities with reasons to "clean up the space"."

You are definitely among the majority with this opinion, but I have always differred on it. The mod to "open up" a TS450 is easy, well known and documented. No one would ever know what radio you were transmitting on.
When you think about it, Ham radio started with guys that built their own radios from scratch... boy...... talk about spurious emmissions!!!
Ham radio endeavors for a person to learn the science and experiment... so how does this differ from modifying for Marine SSB use? (I know it's against reg's, but I'm talking about the hardware here.)
If you want to get rid of noise on the net, outlaw Paktor!

[Beausoleil]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

"Doctored radios etc, ( it is illegal to modify a marine SSB to transmit on Amateur bands, except in an emergency) are a problem all over the place, they give the activity a bad name, encourage rogue operation thats sometimes causes and provides the authorities with reasons to "clean up the space"."

-

Since when is it illegal to use a marine ssb to transmit on amateur frequencies? It's illegal to use a non type-certified radio to transmit on marine SB freqs, but it is perfectly legal to use a marine ssb to transmit on the amateur bands.

BTW, the Kenwood TS450 is an amateur radio, not a marine ssb.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

No the 802 is not out of the box opened for ham bands. Doing so voids your ships radio license. The radio will not receive type approval of it has ham bands out of the box. Many radios can be reprogrammed to do all sorts of things. But that doesn't make them legal

Dave

But AFAIK, Icom even publish the key sequence needed to open the bands.

But I guess if part of the type approval for marine SSB includes a requirement that the radio must not be capable of transmitting on any other bands, then you're right. That must be it, I guess.

[Paul Elliott]

The question at the moment is if you have invalidated the marine SSB certification by opening up the radio for ham-band operation.

1) In theory, probably so, even if the "modification" is a well-documented bit of re-programming.

2) In practice, this "modification" will have absolutely no effect on the behavior of the radio when operating on the marine bands. I have no moral objection to this modification. My Icom 710 has been opened up for ham-band operation.

3) Is the "modified" radio legal for ham use? It perhaps may not be legally sold with this modification, but a licensed ham is allowed to modify gear to his heart's content. The ham is responsible for compliance to the technical requirements.

4) In practice, the modified marine SSB is going to be well-within the ham radio signal purity requirements (which are significantly more relaxed than the marine SSB requirements).

On the marine bands, I like my Icom 710. It's easy to operate and performs well. It's not convenient for ham operation, but I use it on the ham bands occasionally. For ham use at home, my ham radio has many more buttons and knobs. It could be set up for channelized marine SSB operation, but it would be pretty easy to misconfigure it if one wasn't being careful.

My ham radio may or may not comply with Marine SSB requirements. I doubt if there would be an issue with my using it for marine SSB, but I could be wrong.

[NahanniV]

Back to the OPs question....

I have a similar ketch rig and am preparing to install SSB.

The rig is a split backstay (red on diagram) with the lower sections about 23' long. There is also a triatic(?) stay (green on diagram) between the two masts that runs through a block at the top of the mizzen then down to a turnbuckle attached to the front of the mizzen at boom level.

I have the equipment already (ICOM M802+140AT and KISS ground).

I see at least five possibilities for the antenna element.

1/ Insulate one of the lower legs of the backstay at the triangle connector.

2/ Use both the lower legs of the backstay by insulating the upper section (forming an end fed inverted V ?).

3/ Use the triatic by insulating the connections at the top of main mast, top of mizzen and lower turnbuckle.

4/ leave the rigging alone and hoist a semi permanent "wire inside a rope" antenna or lifeline cable.

5/ Use a GAM split lead antenna clipped over one of the lower backstays.

Anybody have any advice or experience that might help me avoid wasting a lot of time and money experimenting ?

Thanks,
JM

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by Paul Elliott

The question at the moment is if you have invalidated the marine SSB certification by opening up the radio for ham-band operation.

1) In theory, probably so, even if the "modification" is a well-documented bit of re-programming.

2) In practice, this "modification" will have absolutely no effect on the behavior of the radio when operating on the marine bands. I have no moral objection to this modification. My Icom 710 has been opened up for ham-band operation.

3) Is the "modified" radio legal for ham use? It perhaps may not be legally sold with this modification, but a licensed ham is allowed to modify gear to his heart's content. The ham is responsible for compliance to the technical requirements.

4) In practice, the modified marine SSB is going to be well-within the ham radio signal purity requirements (which are significantly more relaxed than the marine SSB requirements).

On the marine bands, I like my Icom 710. It's easy to operate and performs well. It's not convenient for ham operation, but I use it on the ham bands occasionally. For ham use at home, my ham radio has many more buttons and knobs. It could be set up for channelized marine SSB operation, but it would be pretty easy to misconfigure it if one wasn't being careful.

My ham radio may or may not comply with Marine SSB requirements. I doubt if there would be an issue with my using it for marine SSB, but I could be wrong.

I was talking about modifying the Ham rig for SSB, but... right on!

[jongleur]

Vieux Malin

Go ahead and get your license, but if you were in Great Britain, you would get your licence.

[VieuxMalin]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I was talking about modifying the Ham rig for SSB, but... right on!

Actually, I've started this thread about a totally different topic

But I am happy to leave you the helm...

[VieuxMalin]

Originally Posted by NahanniV

Back to the OPs question....

I have a similar ketch rig and am preparing to install SSB.

The rig is a split backstay (red on diagram) with the lower sections about 23' long. There is also a triatic(?) stay (green on diagram) between the two masts that runs through a block at the top of the mizzen then down to a turnbuckle attached to the front of the mizzen at boom level.

I have the equipment already (ICOM M802+140AT and KISS ground).

I see at least five possibilities for the antenna element.

1/ Insulate one of the lower legs of the backstay at the triangle connector.

2/ Use both the lower legs of the backstay by insulating the upper section (forming an end fed inverted V ?).

3/ Use the triatic by insulating the connections at the top of main mast, top of mizzen and lower turnbuckle.

4/ leave the rigging alone and hoist a semi permanent "wire inside a rope" antenna or lifeline cable.

5/ Use a GAM split lead antenna clipped over one of the lower backstays.

Anybody have any advice or experience that might help me avoid wasting a lot of time and money experimenting ?

Thanks,
JM

Thanks JM.
You're ON topic

I'll go ahead and create an insulated main backstay (that splits as well as yours). Already called the installer, and everything will be hopefully ok.

Ben
s/y Vieux Malin