Ham Radio in a Ketch

[S/V Illusion]

Originally Posted by VieuxMalin

Dear Jan,

thanks for your sensible words, which sound more comprehensive and cool than a "jealous" minded licenced operator, who is just warning "not to touch his toy, unless you are not licenced".

Don't know what a "licence" is but a license is legally required, not some comment from a "jealous" operator as you say. Just curious - what is it you have that prompts you to perceive anyone may be jealous of you?

[VieuxMalin]

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

Don't know what a "licence" is but a license is legally required, not some comment from a "jealous" operator as you say. Just curious - what is it you have that prompts you to perceive anyone may be jealous of you?

Sorry, my comment was not referred to you...and also, sorry for my english.
Yes, license, not licence and I used a wrong word which badly translates, as jealousy means a totally different meaning in italian.

[VieuxMalin]

I was referring to the (say) "pedantic" way to stress the importance of licenSing, while I was just asking for a technical advice.
Did not initiated the thread talking about burocracy.
That's the meaning of my phrase which included (wrongly) jealousy.
Hope that sounds clear

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by VieuxMalin
Dear Jan,

thanks for your sensible words, which sound more comprehensive and cool than a "jealous" minded licenced operator, who is just warning "not to touch his toy, unless you are not licenced".

Not getting at you at all, But Amateur Radio exists on the back of permits from various authorities around the world, in many places the spectrum is under challenge as commercial operators want greater spectrum and governments see $$$$ in that.

Amateur radio, therefore, tries very hard to self police, and to show that it is responsible and co-operative. So it behoves anyone to acquire the required license before using the equipment. It also provides access to a community of knowledge users, opens doors to foreign transmitting etc.

Doctored radios etc, ( it is illegal to modify a marine SSB to transmit on Amateur bands, except in an emergency) are a problem all over the place, they give the activity a bad name, encourage rogue operation thats sometimes causes interference and provides the authorities with reasons to "clean up the space".

I am not making any moral judgement here as you have stated that you intend to acquire the relevant license. so thats good. But there is a reason for compliance.

Dave

[VieuxMalin]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Not getting at you at all, But Amateur Radio exists on the back of permits from various authorities around the world, in many places the spectrum is under challenge as commercial operators want greater spectrum and governments see $$$$ in that.

Amateur radio, therefore, tries very hard to self police, and to show that it is responsible and co-operative. So it behoves anyone to acquire the required license before using the equipment. It also provides access to a community of knowledge users, opens doors to foreign transmitting etc.

Doctored radios etc, ( it is illegal to modify a marine SSB to transmit on Amateur bands, except in an emergency) are a problem all over the place, they give the activity a bad name, encourage rogue operation thats sometimes causes interference and provides the authorities with reasons to "clean up the space".

I am not making any moral judgement here as you have stated that you intend to acquire the relevant license. so thats good. But there is a reason for compliance.

Dave

Thank you so much, Dave, and my apologies for having mis-interpreted your good will.

Of course, I perfectly understand the importance of licensing, and as you remembered well, I will do it for sure....even if it is not that easy in my "strange" country. Maybe, I'll try to go through the process , once I reach the other side of the pond.

But once again, I honestly thank you and apologize.
Let's virtually drink together ....and CHEERS !

Ben

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Doctored radios etc, ( it is illegal to modify a marine SSB to transmit on Amateur bands, except in an emergency) are a problem all over the place, they give the activity a bad name, encourage rogue operation thats sometimes causes interference and provides the authorities with reasons to "clean up the space".


Dave

Dave, I'm sure if you took your meds this morning you would have said what you really meant, which was 'it is illegal to modify an amateur SSB to transmit on the Marine bands, except in an emergency'. I recommend Starbucks.

[GrowleyMonster]

Your "opened up" Kenwood TS-whatever ham xcvr is probably not type accepted for use as a marine SSB. Therefore, it is probably illegal to transmit on marine frequencies, and does not meet any carriage requirements for a licensed ship station.

Generally, depending of course on where you are, It is perfectly legal to HAVE ham radio gear, or marine radio gear, without a license, (there are exceptions!!!!) just not to transmit. In order to use an automatic antenna tuner, you must transmit, and therefore you will be operating illegally. Don't do that! You will lose your gear and get a fine.

Get your license FIRST, before you install. The licensing course will teach you most of what you need to know to successfully install your gear. Get your ham license, and then get your commercial license. You can get by just fine with an MROP... Marine Radiotelephone Operator License. The RESTRICTED MROP, unless I am mistaken, is a gimmee, with no exam at all. The test for the regular MROP is pretty simple, and if you pass at least the General ham license exam, you only need to memorize a few frequencies and regulations and you got the MROP in the bag.

The ham license is both an operator license and a station license. For marine SSB, you need to get a separate Ship Station License. The FCC is your friend. They will hook you up. Ship Station equipment must be type approved. There are a few ham rigs that can legally be used as marine SSB radios but I am drawing a blank on which ones. AFAIK, it is legal to use a marine SSB on ham frequencies, though of course you are responsible for out of band transmissions, etc.

I really do insist that you get legal first, not last. You will be glad you did.

If you really only want to receive, why don't you just get a nice receiver? Seriously... any receiver with a BFO with a backstay antenna will work just fine for receiving SITOR FEC, RTTY, CW, WEFAX, weather and safety bulletins, and the news. There is software that uses your computer's sound card for demodulating and displaying data modes on your computer. It isn't hard to learn how to put it all together and make it work. In fact, by the time you have your Extra class ham ticket, you will be able to build all that stuff, never mind setting it up and using it. Of course once again, you are back to square one, getting licensed.

Get your license. First of all, you will learn the stuff you need to learn. Second, it will show everyone here that you are serious, and not a troll. Wow... maybe I should just delete all the previous paragraphs! Those two statements pretty much sum it all up.

[VieuxMalin]

Thank you, GM.
Already have an HF receiver onboard (Sangean AT909), and coping well with receiving weather faxes.

My first concern about having a transreceiver is about sending/receiving emails (and gribs, of course). That's all.

Surely, as I said, I want to get the licenSe....but it might not be as simple (burocraticly speaking) as in the US. But I am doing my homeworks here, no probs.

I promise, I am not a troll. Any doubts? Visit my website.....even if I find it quite dis-respectful by your side. As far as I know, in the internet era a Troll is a human being who just want to create problems or disturb the normal sharing of experiences in a community. Do I look like it? I am sorry and please, accept my apologies also for this.

Fair Winds
Ben
s/v Vieux Malin

p.s. For those who could ask : why not a sat phone? The answer is : I have an Iridium 9555...but the costs are REALLY astronomical. So, the phone sleeps inside a locker.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Dave, I'm sure if you took your meds this morning you would have said what you really meant, which was 'it is illegal to modify an amateur SSB to transmit on the Marine bands, except in an emergency'. I recommend Starbucks.

Looking at my meds again offered me no solace. Looking at my amateur radio license and my three CEPT Certs from ROC to GOC, however says that ( a) all marine radios are type approved. Hence cannot be legally modified to work on other bands. And ( b) modify amateur radios to operate on marine SSB is contrary to both amateur licensing and ships radio licensing

Dave

[Teknav]

You guys are assuming that Vieux Malin is a US citizen; he is not. His nickname is in French. France does not have the FCC, but has a regulatory body that controls HAM, probably it is the "PTT"; Post, Telephone and Telegraph. In the Middle East, if you are caught with a scanner, let alone a transmitter you will charged with spying; punishable by hanging. Every country has its rules and regulations. Let's not beat him to death for not having the license; he already knows what the responsible thing to do.

[goboatingnow]

In France its the ANFR. It's a standard CEPT license


Dave

[nhschneider]

Back to the OP's question about an HF radio installation on a ketch: We have a very 'traditional' installation on board using an insulated backstay for our main mast as the 'long wire'. Not only does it work great but we frequently get comments from other cruisers that our signal is exceptionally strong even using an antiquated Icom M800.

Whereas I, too, encourage proper licensing, I will talk with anyone transmitting in an emergency, licensed or not.

Finally, we are all selective about the laws we chose to break. Has anyone offered an alcoholic beverage to a 20-year old where the law states they must be 21 in order to drink legally? Have you ever willingly and knowing exceeded the speed limit in your car? I feel the prohibition on using a marine radio on amateur frequencies and vice versa is an arbitrary political decision with no impact on safety or the public good.

Fair winds and calm seas.

Neal Schneider KE6FXX

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by nhschneider

Back to the OP's question about an HF radio installation on a ketch: We have a very 'traditional' installation on board using an insulated backstay for our main mast as the 'long wire'. Not only does it work great but we frequently get comments from other cruisers that our signal is exceptionally strong even using an antiquated Icom M800.

Whereas I, too, encourage proper licensing, I will talk with anyone transmitting in an emergency, licensed or not.

Finally, we are all selective about the laws we chose to break. Has anyone offered an alcoholic beverage to a 20-year old where the law states they must be 21 in order to drink legally? Have you ever willingly and knowing exceeded the speed limit in your car? I feel the prohibition on using a marine radio on amateur frequencies and vice versa is an arbitrary political decision with no impact on safety or the public good.

Fair winds and calm seas.

Neal Schneider KE6FXX

I have no wish for this thread to descend into a legal versus non legal debate , but to suggest that such decisions were purely political decisions ( as of politicians understand radio spectrum)

Marine radio is channelised , and the specs on channel bandwidth , splatter thd etc are all set down. This is so that in effect non technical operators can use a complex radio to achieve good communications. Add the GMDSS requirements for DSC signalling and you have a complex technology that is type approved.

Amateur radio is specifically designed to allow experimentation and exploration of the allotted spectrum. Radios do not have to adhere to any particular specs and home build are allowed with all sorts of characteristics. Furthermore the spectrum isn't channelised and the licensing system assumes a modicum of technical knowledge.

Hence for example it's perfectly allowable to modify a marine SSB to transmit on amateur bands for us by a licensed amateur. Of course that modified radio then cannot be used on the marine SSB bands.

Equally th reverse isnt allowed for good technical reasons, as the modified rig may in no way meet the operating. Specs of marine SSB nor the requirements of GMDSS.

It's a political decision taken on the back of solid technical advise.

Dave

[VieuxMalin]

Originally Posted by nhschneider

Back to the OP's question about an HF radio installation on a ketch: We have a very 'traditional' installation on board using an insulated backstay for our main mast as the 'long wire'. Not only does it work great but we frequently get comments from other cruisers that our signal is exceptionally strong even using an antiquated Icom M800.

Whereas I, too, encourage proper licensing, I will talk with anyone transmitting in an emergency, licensed or not.

Finally, we are all selective about the laws we chose to break. Has anyone offered an alcoholic beverage to a 20-year old where the law states they must be 21 in order to drink legally? Have you ever willingly and knowing exceeded the speed limit in your car? I feel the prohibition on using a marine radio on amateur frequencies and vice versa is an arbitrary political decision with no impact on safety or the public good.

Fair winds and calm seas.

Neal Schneider KE6FXX

Thanks for leading the subject back to topic

I would add a question on the above (talking about legal stuff) : would you US citizen still let people buy a GUN , just as easy as buying a pack of popcorns in a supermarket?

Law is the Law, no question. But there are also issues regarding the "common sense", and I've stated clearly WHY I want a ham radio on board (principally safety + email + gribs).

I understand that, more than technical things, people are more sensible about burocracy and laws.
As Teknav correctly said, I know what I am doing....even if (as I have stated earlier: post n. 17) I am NOT US, nor french...but italian...an italian airline captain, with ALL aviation licenSes issued under the JAR (Joint Aviation Regulations) , McDonnel Douglas MD82, Airbus A320F, Airbus A330 type rated..as far as my aviation titles are concerned..... holder of a RYA Yacht Master Offshore Sail ticket with IMO STCW95, PADI Open Water Scuba Diver, as far as my maritime titles are concerned.
This is to satisfy all the guys here who are so mad about licenSes.

So, back to the topic....I understand that I will need to rely on the "expertise of an expert" , aka professional installer. End of discussion here.

Thanks to you all

Ben
s/v
Vieux Malin

[conachair]

Originally Posted by VieuxMalin

My first concern about having a transreceiver is about sending/receiving emails (and gribs, of course). That's all.

If using the ham bands you'll need a valid amateur radio call sign for that, on winlink anyway. Not sure what other email services are available on the ham bands, if any.