Finally!!! Something instead of Starlink! Can’t wait for this

[UFO]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I still can’t believe they were unilaterally allowed to do this without any limitation whatsoever

LOL Have you missed the last 30 years and what ALL the corporations have been up to? I won't go into particulars as it will create a storm in a tea cup on the forum - This is just business as normal.

[catalystcat]

Some observations from someone who has been watching this for more than a couple of decades.

First, Musk is not the only one who made large bets on space as a game changer long ago.

Project Kuiper/Blue Origin (Bezos) and SpaceX/Starlink (Musk) have been under development for a very long time. I first visited Blue Origin about 20 yrs ago and SpaceX over a 15yrs ago. There have also been others who have tried different approaches and have not really kept up. e.g., O3B raised a ton of money and took a different course. It is still around; but, not the way Kuiper and Starlink have evolved.

The satellite companies. (plus things like Ariane) have taken the cost per kilogram down from about $50K to $1.5k (thank the Space Shuttle for going from $1,000,000/kg to about $50,000/kg.) This overall drop in price of almost 1000X is a major factor in making space into a possibly viable commercial market. And that took someone willing to and capable of betting billions to get there.

BTW - These LEO (and MEO and GEO) constellations are going to be about a lot more than just internet access and are going to raise a ton of issues we don't usually associate with stuff in space (e.g., maintenance, MTBF, debris, privacy, agriculture, weather monitoring, developing world access and tools, low-G manufacturing, defense, logistics, commercial and legal conflicts and much, much more).

The antenna companies have also been underway for a long time and their development has evolved from "research and development phase" to "supply chain, energy usage, and failure rate stage". Several years ago, I had one of my engineer friends tell me he spent months working to source better, cheaper components, like diodes to reduce costs by a couple of pennies each (there are a lot of circuit elements in these antenna).

On the antenna side, the cost drop has a lot of factors in addition to scale that drove down costs. For example, eliminating the mechanical components is a big factor (once they moved away from trying to do actual phased arrays with phase shifters that cost a ton of money and power. The history of non-phased array AESAs is long and worth some reading.)

Additionally, maturing technology to access the huge bandwidths available at higher frequencies - X-band, Ka and Ku band, etc. - and taking advantage of mmWave technigues to increase the number of bits/Hz gave another huge reduction in the cost per bit and overall capacity.
Once again, this involved some visionary thinking and spending. There were some real (prolonged and expensive) battles over making these frequency bands available for space.

They still have a way to go on energy usage, orbit stabilization, and failure rates.

Between the huge cost reduction in getting stuff up there and the huge drop in antenna and related costs, the space economy is maturing rapidly and here to stay. Watch for developments in space-based optics next - not just intersatellite laser comms.

Also, watch for a lot of other commercial space-based efforts. There is even a company dedicated to logistics and scheduling services - https://www.dorbit.space/
.
To give a taste of the breadth and scale of developments, here is just a taste of some startups looking to build businesses for imaging from space. And, these are only some of the startups in just the imaging sector.

https://www.ventureradar.com/startup...lite%20imagery


Here are a few recent fundings and businesses making news -

https://spacenews.com/space-imagery-...ses-8-million/
https://www.pixxel.space/
https://www.capellaspace.com/
https://www.planet.com/

To bring this back to Cruisers interests beyond just connectivity, imagine real time imagery of anchorages as you approach including current level of crowding and open places, real time data on current flow localized to several feet as you approach a channel, real time video of your locale showing and flagging tankers/fishing boats near you (using AI/object recognition plus satellite imagery), and more. All of this is technically doable. (e.g., take some time to look at the SAR technology from Capella and the UAV SAR technology from Galaxeye). Maybe not commercially doable.

BTW - if you are concerned about crowding in LEO orbits, you'll also be concerned about crowded skies with UAVs and crowded seas with USVs, like Saildrone and its progeny. Maybe Musk's idea of going to other planets sounds a little more attractive in that light?



OK, that's enough rambling for now.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Are you drunk?

What are you even talking about . Where have I said ANYTHING about being impressed, or not, with "visionaries"??!!?? I said I wasn't a fan of either super-billionaire.

Here's the message you quoted:

Where in here does it even remotely touch on Musk's plans to go to Mars?!? YOU are the only one pushing this completely bizarre drift. All I wanted to do was say that competition will be good in the satellite-based Internet service market. You are having a completely different discussion.

Keep your cool Mike, you are not allowed to make personal attacks like that.

It was me saying that you can’t handle visionaries and the big steps for humankind they take. And no, that’s not what I quoted, how can you not see that. Just to be sure, I captured and attached it. That was written by you in the mindset of not handling these kind of achievements.

[NYSail]

Sorry my ignorance as this has not been a need of mine yet….. but when it is said sl is say $120 per mo th, does that include include usage charges? Or do you get a set amount of data transfer…… thanks

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Keep your cool Mike, you are not allowed to make personal attacks like that.

It was me saying that you can’t handle visionaries and the big steps for humankind they take. And no, that’s not what I quoted, how can you not see that. Just to be sure, I captured and attached it. That was written by you in the mindset of not handling these kind of achievements.

If you want to talk about Amazon's Kuiper program, how it might impact Starlink, and what this will mean for cruisers, then great. But you only want to talk about rockets, and Musk's other plans to colonize Mars. Start another thread if that's what you want to discuss.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by GordMay

It's a case of True Cost Economics - not charity:

If they are imposing an indirect cost [negative externality] on society, then, paying for a work-around [or mitigation/remediation] isn’t charity - it’s merely internalizing these marginal costs and risks.

Good point Gord. I was thinking off the cuff with my suggestion about making it a regulatory demand to have these companies fund higher orbit, or even solar, telescopes. But as you put it, there is ample precedent to demand that those who impact the commons negatively, should be asked (forced) to compensate in some way.