Why is this schooner so cheap?

[Captain Puget]

That you for posting, a fun boat to look at that appears well maintained. That said, a high maintenance boat (adjust your budget) with some obvious possible issues.

The devil will be in the details (eg a VERY thorough survey).

[Ardbeg]

I thought I recognized the background of most of the photos. I remember seeing this boat across the street from my Condo in Kingston. If this boat is still at the same location, there is a problem. The Federal Government was repairing a bascule bridge that must be lifted for larger boats/sailboats to leave the harbour. A month ago the contractor seriously broke something on the bridge and construction repairs were halted. Rumours are all we have due to lack of transparency from the Federal Government (Liberals) however those rumours are saying the bridge cannot be repaired so all the vessels are trapped inside the bridge. There is also a major mfger of safety boats ( Metalcraft Marine) which has all their boats trapped as well as some cruise and tourist boats.


https://www.metalcraftmarine.com/


What I can say positively about this boat is that it is at the right location to get expert advice. I think that is what it is doing there to begin with.


Luckily my boat is stored/docked at the Portsmouth Olympic Harbour so it is in the water currently with no harbour blockages. Now if only we could get some decent weather to enjoy it! Problem is I live now east of the damaged bridge so to get to my boat and to downtown Kingston I have to drive the long way around.

[pbmaise]

Found an article about the bridge closure

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...gins%20May%201.

[Ardbeg]

That was the initial position. It has now progressed to threats of businesses on the inside to sue the federal government. Also the Government has now shut down work, the contractor has left the scene and huge supports have been put under the counter weights. No one can get answers from the Government even after meetings with deputy Minister. This will only get uglier as it has also cut tourist boats from doing the Rideau Canal to exit the Cataraqui River into the St Lawrence River. People cannot even walk or bicycle across the bridge. Downtown Kingston is seeing a huge drop in business.

[dsdmedic]

Originally Posted by cqllysto

Hello everyone!

Non-sailor here, but hopefully in the future. I like looking at the boats on Yatchworld for daydreaming purposes, but I found this schooner (which I really like schooners and ketchs) that is very cheap. Link here:

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/198...ooner-9165510/

I'm not planning to buy this boat or anything, just looking to learn. Why is it so cheap? I was under the impression that schooners are a much higher end rig style that you usually can't find for less than 150k. Is it because it's steel and not fibreglass? Does that make such a huge difference?

Apologies for my naivety, I'm just very curious haha.

Thank you!

So, I am by NO means any kind of expert on steel boats, OR Schooners (though I agree with you, I really like the looks of Schooners, and am looking for a Ketch myself), but I can share my own thoughts being well into the boat-searching process.

1) It's a one-off design, apparently home-built from plans. That means there is NOTHING standard about any of it -- and without knowing the skill or care of the original builder, you have no way to know if everything was done to Lloyds A1 standard, or to "Please don't let this sink in the millpond lake" standard. That fact that it's made a number of voyages is great, but it's the seller who's claiming that, so I'd always be a little suspect.

2) It's a ~43 year old boat. Is it insurable? Even for fiberglass boats, getting insurance (at least in the US) for vessels over 40 yrs old if you want to go voyaging is becoming damn-near impossible.

3) It's a ~43 year old boat. Has it been updated and maintained? I'm not sure, but you'd best believe that in spite of the pretty pictures, anything that's original may be in need of service (at best) or replacement (at worst). Think fuel tanks, water tanks, holding tanks, rigging (when was the standing rigging last done -- Schooner rig means LOTS more standing and running rigging than a Sloop). Just at a glance through the photos, I'm not loving the turnbuckles OR wire shrouds. Maybe it's just the patina of the metal, but that could also be corrosion we're seeing.

4) 49 feet is a lot of boat for many people, especially new sailors. And depending on where she's laying now, I don't know how well the great lakes handle that size vessel. Can you get dockage? haul-out? No clue, I'm not in that area.

5) She's a steel boat. If you're not used to steel boats, and working on steel boats, and potentially welding, there's a lot MORE to learn about the care and feeding of them, I understand. If you have to pay someone to do all of that, it'll be a bank-breaker.

6) The engine is an original, 1981 John Deere, with no information on hours. Get it inspected, but it's probably wise to assume you'll need to do a full re-power. That *alone* could easily run $20-30k US depending on your engine choices and cost of labor.

So, there's the things that jumped out at me just looking at the ad, without spending much time digging into anything further.

Is she the right boat for someone? Very possibly! A welder, or someone with lots of experience on schooners and steel boats, ideally who's also a competent diesel mechanic? Might be able to get a pretty good deal here. But for someone with little/no boat repair and refit experience, she might well be an inescapable money-pit (as can be *every* boat)

Just my $0.02US (or $2.00 CDN, if you will )

Darren

[Srpulpo]

remember the old saying that cheap boats are the most expensive. you can pay up frontfor good newer gear or pay later replacing it all.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by dsdmedic

So, I am by NO means any kind of expert on steel boats,

This is a ferro cement boat... not steel No surveyor in his right mind would survey this without very expensive x-rays of the rebar. Even then few insurance companies want anything to do with them.

[Windpilot]

The most expensive thing you can buy is cheap sailboat.

[gordonhinds]

It’s not a popular design so it suffers. The gear and systems look pretty old. But it could also be a great boat. There was a ferro schooner at Southport that has sailed the oceans and was in great Knick. Not a big fan of ferro but that is partly due to ignorance. I suspect they are hard to change deck layouts or cut windows into. It would be worth a look. It looks heavy. The owner must be very old old if he built it, but it looks well loved if not a tad neglected. $100k would bring it up to spec.

[cascade]

Looks to me very like a ferror-cement boat. Some of these are very well built, some are not. There doesn't seem to be any reference to the hull material. Many ferro boats have sailed around the world but generally, because most of them are home builds, their value is lower than other boats. Some of them are catastrophically badly built and that affects the reputation of all of them.

[SailingHarmonie]

It’s NOT a steel boat. It’s ferrocement. That’s all you need to know.

[jhall767]

Originally Posted by pbmaise

Found an article about the bridge closure

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...gins%20May%201.

Meanwhile Baltimore says - "Hold my Beer"

[DumnMad]

Looks good after 40 odd years. Probably good for another 40 years if cared for.

Compared to a riverside apartment it is an excellent price and your maintenance costs would be way less than mortgage costs plus you get a great lifestyle.

Only need liability insurance if you look after it well.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by DumnMad

Looks good after 40 odd years. Probably good for another 40 years if cared for.

Compared to a riverside apartment it is an excellent price and your maintenance costs would be way less than mortgage costs plus you get a great lifestyle.

Only need liability insurance if you look after it well.

Boat is in Canada. What do you do with it in the winter when no marina will allow you in without insurance and no one will insure you ?

Heres the latest one from Canada. I object to my tax money cleaning up this uninsured mess.

[DumnMad]

Its in Canada - so most likely has a ducted deisel heater