Waving not drowning?

[goboatingnow]

I’d say two things

12 months is very very short and don’t sell the house. Getting back on the property ladder can be much harder then you think.

We cruise aboard about 9 months , but we kept the house.

I’d even downsize the boat to keep the house.

Again for such a short period , you could even borrow the money , rather then sell the house, if the boat is paid for , you don’t need too much to live on anyway.

The kids will be a challenge , I hope they like spending lots of time with mum and dad. ( it’s not about them liking the sailing )

Have a bailout plan. Around year 3 you could then consider abandoning the bailout plan.

12 months will be over in a flash.

[TATYANNA]

Thanks sailorman

[Na Mara]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I’d say two things

12 months is very very short and don’t sell the house. Getting back on the property ladder can be much harder then you think.

We cruise aboard about 9 months , but we kept the house.

I’d even downsize the boat to keep the house.

Again for such a short period , you could even borrow the money , rather then sell the house, if the boat is paid for , you don’t need too much to live on anyway.

The kids will be a challenge , I hope they like spending lots of time with mum and dad. ( it’s not about them liking the sailing )

Have a bailout plan. Around year 3 you could then consider abandoning the bailout plan.

12 months will be over in a flash.

Plan A is to have somewhere to come back to but it won’t be the house. The house is a big, old Villa out of town. It’s high maintenance, high monthly costs and difficult to rent out. It’s also in the wrong place for our future plans and way too big for an empty nest. So it was always going to be sold anyway. The question is whether it’s better to use the capital in the house to buy a flat where we want to live in the future with about 70% mortgage and then rent it out to cover that mortgage and running costs whilst we are away, or whether we should invest that capital from the house for the duration of the trip and use it to buy something to live in when we get back into the job market on our return. The capital is about 30% of the value of a 2-3 room flat in central Stockholm. We have some more savings on top of that.

Plan A requires carrying a mortgage without secure employment as well as the risks of renting.

Plan B requires getting back into the property ladder on our return, which first requires us both getting jobs, which will probably mean 6 months or more of homelessness on our return.

[double u]

Hats off, Na Mara, if you go through with your plan!
In moments of doubt, think of what Wanderer III of the Hiscocks hat carved in the main bulkhead:
"Grab a chance, & you won't be sorry for a 'might-have-been'!"

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Na Mara

Plan A is to have somewhere to come back to but it won’t be the house. The house is a big, old Villa out of town. It’s high maintenance, high monthly costs and difficult to rent out. It’s also in the wrong place for our future plans and way too big for an empty nest. So it was always going to be sold anyway. The question is whether it’s better to use the capital in the house to buy a flat where we want to live in the future with about 70% mortgage and then rent it out to cover that mortgage and running costs whilst we are away, or whether we should invest that capital from the house for the duration of the trip and use it to buy something to live in when we get back into the job market on our return. The capital is about 30% of the value of a 2-3 room flat in central Stockholm. We have some more savings on top of that.



Plan A requires carrying a mortgage without secure employment as well as the risks of renting.



Plan B requires getting back into the property ladder on our return, which first requires us both getting jobs, which will probably mean 6 months or more of homelessness on our return.

Fine then sell the villa , buy a suitable house straight away, then you know where u stand. Again 12 months is such a short time that you’ll be back in Sweden in no time

[skipmac]

Hard to add much since it's clear that you have thought out the plan quite well.

From you description of the situation selling the house makes perfect sense. As far as buying a new house or flat, when and where is something you would best know. I can only comment on the market in the US where real estate prices have spiked in almost all areas and it is very much a sellers market, much like the boat market. With interest rates forecast to gradually increase my best guess (note that I say "guess" not forecast or prediction) is that the housing and boat market will cool off a bit in the next year or two so better to buy later instead of now.

There would be the mental reassurance of buying the flat now, knowing you will have a place waiting when you return but that would require you to be a long distance landlord. Not sure how easy that is in Sweden but in the US it can be a huge pain. Occasional tenants that don't pay the rent and the long, complex process to have them evicted; tenants that trash the property; dealing with repairs if something breaks in the flat; all things that can add to stress instead of relieving it.

And as you said, you will have the boat as a temporary home. Can you time it so you arrive early in the summer so you have a few months to find a place to live on land? Which again raises the point, if you are planning to return in a year maybe don't be too aggressive with dumping your stuff. Storage for a year, at least here, isn't expensive and in just a year should not have a problem with stuff deteriorating. If you keep some of the basics it will make moving back onto land easier and much cheaper. On the other hand, getting rid of it all will give you an excuse to buy new stuff and will make it easier to quit land altogether and just keep on going.

[Na Mara]

We were thinking of getting an agency to let the flat for us but I have experience in the family of that going wrong so I am well aware of the problems that can arise when renting. The only risk free way of doing this is to just not grand I see that as cowardice in the face of the enemy. Not sure what we will do but at the moment we are leaning toward running the risks of renting.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Na Mara

We were thinking of getting an agency to let the flat for us but I have experience in the family of that going wrong so I am well aware of the problems that can arise when renting. The only risk free way of doing this is to just not grand I see that as cowardice in the face of the enemy. Not sure what we will do but at the moment we are leaning toward running the risks of renting.

Hopefully property renting isn't as difficult in Sweden as the US. One problem is renters' rights. If a home rental (as opposed to business) even if the renter stops paying rent altogether it can take months and months to have them formally evicted. During the Covid pandemic that was extended further.

I also know of several problems with renters that resulted in damage to homes. Two different people I know had homes rented by people that set up a pot growing operation in the house that resulted in many thousands in damage due to rot and mold from the irrigation systems. A couple of friends had tenants move pets into the house and basically turn one of the bedrooms into a dog pen including use for the dogs to eliminate on the floor and carpet.

Of course these are pretty rare occurrences but still is that something you want to worry about when anchored in a lovely, tropical harbor?

[JPA Cate]

Renting has worked well for a few of our Australian cruising friends; but of our American friends who had rentals, in one case they missed a season due to having to return to supervise unexpected repairs. And another was way worse, it was a sister who was looking after the rental property, with access to all their accounts and bankrupted them. It was just awful, and totally unexpected. Just about broke their hearts. I guess the lesson is to not underestimate how wrongly some humans will behave. Figure out something that will protect you against too much loss, if you draw a bad renter. And accept that you might have to return to Sweden to evict them and have your trip aborted. We have an Australian friend who had a very hard time getting rid of a renter when they wanted to move into their house. The renter eventually left, but left the dogs behind. The thing is, that abuse of landlords has been increasing over the years we've been cruising.

Na Mara, thanks for putting my mind at ease about the sailing end of it, and I felt really good that you already have a suitable boat, too.

You're probably right in your assessment of people's reactions at home for your plan. It is a fiscal risk. And, people who are committed to life on land simply don't understand the attraction, so the balance they work out is not applicable to you but you can't explain it because only you and your good lady understand the pull, and the benefits to an extended time away together at this time, in your boat. They are necessarily opposed, and possibly a little frightened at your bravery, too. They will not encourage you. Don't expect that, it's not fair.

In terms of investing, right now, when there is the possibility of yet another military action, in the Ukraine, and with Covid still being a concern, it all looks very unstable to this oldie. And, I don't know if there's anyone who can help take out the risk for you, but perhaps there is some insurance you could afford that might ameliorate it somewhat?

Again, good luck, and fair winds.

Ann

[Enfant Du Vent]

Goboatingnow said, "Again 12 months is such a short time that you’ll be back in Sweden in no time'"


Skipmac said, " BUT, be careful. This is a dangerous undertaking. You might love the cruising life and never come back."




WARNING:
I took a "sabbatical" at 40, but somehow I ended up taking all 7 years! Of course I was single, had few responsibilities or costs back home and could live off the income from my investments.

So....just be careful of the low cost of rum in the Caribbean. You too may lose the ability to count. OR maybe I wasn't sober enough to find it scary. <Grin>

[Na Mara]

Unless a family of 4 can live off and maintain a quality 43ft yacht on 10000$ a year we won’t be able to live off our capital indefinitely.

However, if we let ourselves eat into that capital a bit we could easily be out there long enough for a leisurely circumnavigation. (3-4 years). Additionally as a teacher in maths and physics with English as my mother tongue I can get work pretty much anywhere to earn a few pennies.

The problem is the kids of course. The youngest needs to return to do the equivalent of college and then uni and the oldest wants to be an architect or such so we need to return to put them through their educations before they age out. The longest we can be away without damaging their education is two years.We have more than enough savings for that.

So the most likely outcome if we get to the Caribbean and find ourselves liking the lifestyle too much is we take the option of an extra year and use it to explore the eastern US, Maritimes, Greenland, Iceland, faroes, Shetland, Svalbard and Norway. Otherwise we are coming back via Bermuda and the Azores within a year.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Na Mara

Unless a family of 4 can live off and maintain a quality 43ft yacht on 10000$ a year we won’t be able to live off our capital indefinitely.



However, if we let ourselves eat into that capital a bit we could easily be out there long enough for a leisurely circumnavigation. (3-4 years). Additionally as a teacher in maths and physics with English as my mother tongue I can get work pretty much anywhere to earn a few pennies.



The problem is the kids of course. The youngest needs to return to do the equivalent of college and then uni and the oldest wants to be an architect or such so we need to return to put them through their educations before they age out. The longest we can be away without damaging their education is two years.We have more than enough savings for that.



So the most likely outcome if we get to the Caribbean and find ourselves liking the lifestyle too much is we take the option of an extra year and use it to explore the eastern US, Maritimes, Greenland, Iceland, faroes, Shetland, Svalbard and Norway. Otherwise we are coming back via Bermuda and the Azores within a year.

I think with kids of that age , this will , as you correctly surmise , effectively dictate your plans. In our case it scuppered them, till they reached the “ age” , my maxim being “ 24 and out the door “. Also “bank of daddy “ had some calls in it during that period !!

Other then the issues over the house , I think you are being very wise in your summation

[Na Mara]

My maxim is more “21, job done”.

They can visit after that but they ain’t living with us.

Once they’ve left home and the dust has settled we can look again at just cutting the landlines.

[Na Mara]

Just a quick update on progress toward the sabbatical year.

The dog is booked to see the vet next week to start the process of rehoming and we have two estate agents coming to start the ball rolling on selling the house.

Beyond that we are minimising our possessions: selling what we can and chucking the rest.

If the weather is good over the midterm holidays we’ll try a yard sale for my tools.

Between selling off what we can and saving what we can we should be able to pay for all the boat improvements and pay for the trip (2500euro per month budget) without dipping into the capital in the house.

We are leaning more toward buying a flat to rent out with the capital in the house rather than investing it to generate monthly income from interest/dividends. We want the security of somewhere to live when we return. We will have to see what the valuation is next week to know what we have to play with.

The boat yard is taking too long getting back to us with a quote for the work we need doing this year. This is the year when we renew the electrical and gas systems aboard as well as check everything under the water line so it’s vital that the work happens this year if we are to be able to leave on time. Time is now getting short so I may have to give the yard an ultimatum: do the work or loose the work.

I think I’ll keep this thread going as a log of the process, warts and all, of doing this.

[Pete7]

Interesting times, good luck following your dreams

I have a funeral to go to, a good friend. He didn't get the chance to enjoy his retirement. Go now.

Pete