Urgent help needed to recover abandoned yacht NW Barbados

[Scout 30]

This is a quote from the Hanse Yachts UK website. They go on to brag about how many Hanses are in the ARC & encourage them to continue across the Pacific. Given the marketing by this company any implication that the OP should have known this was not a blue water capable boat is absurd.

"With a reputation for being strongly built & heavily engineered, the latest Hanse models are a very popular choice when bashing across oceans is on the cards."

https://www.hanseyachts.co.uk/readnews.asp?article=111

[Scout 30]

"Hanse build quality - Why are Hanses better?"

"All Hanses are built to a category A ocean rating and have a high ballast ratio, which in simple terms means a safe reliable sailing boat which will look after you when the going gets tough."

https://www.hanseyachts.co.uk/readnews.asp?article=67

[a64pilot]

I believe many boat builders, don't build the rudder, they buy it, does Hanse?

[Scout 30]

Some here would have us believe that a reasonable person would just know that these boats are not capable of crossing oceans. In fact, the opposite is true. Any reasonable person would believe that what this company is saying about their boats is true. Some would also have us believe that because the price point of these boats is below some magic threshold any reasonable buyer should know that they are not safe for crossing oceans. That is also not true. First of all these boats are not cheaper than other builder's boats that are making similar claims. And again, it is reasonable to expect the claims that a manufacturer makes about his product to be true. It is also reasonable to expect that a manufacturer will take steps to correct any known defects.

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by Scout 30

Some here would have us believe that a reasonable person would just know that these boats are not capable of crossing oceans. In fact, the opposite is true. Any reasonable person would believe that what this company is saying about their boats is true. Some would also have us believe that because the price point of these boats is below some magic threshold any reasonable buyer should know that they are not safe for crossing oceans. That is also not true. First of all these boats are not cheaper than other builder's boats that are making similar claims. And again, it is reasonable to expect the claims that a manufacturer makes about his product to be true. It is also reasonable to expect that a manufacturer will take steps to correct any known defects.

Your thought process makes sense but you have to believe that the CE rating really means something similar to a Lloyds rating of the past. You do your homework and you find that the CE rating calls for thru hulls to last 5 years and as pure brass will last that long the builders use brass. Bronze is the proper metal for thru hulls but the high production builders can save lots of money using inferior products that in this case can sink the boat. What does that say about CE ratings and builders who build down to those ratings?These high production boats are all much cheaper than a higher quality built boat. Why expect a low price and high quality??
Who in their right mind really trusts what companies tell you? Volkswagen told their customers they produced clean diesel engines, right! All the cigarette companies told their purchasers that you didn't have to be worried about cancer. Trump is going to build a wall between America and Mexico and Mexico will pay for it. I could right a book on why you can't trust companies that self regulate. Don't believe the government either, they knew damn well that all the emission testing they were doing never even came close to real world results. We all want to believe that we can buy something cheap and get the same quality as something expensive, there are some folks on this forum that push those ideas but it's just wiser to be a skeptic, teach your kids to be skeptics as well, best favor you can give them.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Scout 30

Some here would have us believe that a reasonable person would just know that these boats are not capable of crossing oceans. In fact, the opposite is true. Any reasonable person would believe that what this company is saying about their boats is true. Some would also have us believe that because the price point of these boats is below some magic threshold any reasonable buyer should know that they are not safe for crossing oceans. That is also not true. First of all these boats are not cheaper than other builder's boats that are making similar claims. And again, it is reasonable to expect the claims that a manufacturer makes about his product to be true. It is also reasonable to expect that a manufacturer will take steps to correct any known defects.

The boat is crossing an ocean.. its the rudder that's not..
Though some would have us believe it is..

PS; Maybe this is the UK version of Hunter Yachts.. and we all know what folks say about them.. despite the marketing hype..

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I believe many boat builders, don't build the rudder, they buy it, does Hanse?

I believe most of their parts are outsourced.. owners have in the past complained of lack of access to replacement parts because "We regret to inform you this part is out of stock and we cannot help as this particular supplier no longer is with us.."
Regardless of this Hanse Germany should be aware of/question what materials make up any outsourced part including rudders..

[a64pilot]

I asked as I think I my IP rudder was made by Foss, who advertises over 50,000 rudders made since 1978.
I don't know about you, but that would be a whole lot of replacement rudders, maybe they make a lot of rudders for new boats?
I understand what your saying, one assumes even if outsourced the manufacturer is responsible

[Three Sisters]

The Board of Directors may consider throwing together a couple hundred thousand euros to assist in retrieving the Dove II.

After the tax deduction, the cost would be minimal.
Hanse Group is majority owned by Aurelius Group 74+%. The good publicity would certainly pay off.

We'll forever consider Hanse...oh yea...the rudders fall off. A good faith effort by Hanse and/or Aurelius may well pay off in future business.

Of course, continuing sitting around thinking your **** don't stink would be nothing out of the ordinary.

[boatman61]

Seems the replacement problem lies not only with rudders but here's another rudder problem of theirs.. maybe a recall of all boats fitted with the Polish Product is in order..??
Lets face it.. would you be happy with exactly the same rudder as replacement

Hi,
*
While being at sea in windy conditions ( 5/6 Bft ) I noticed problems with* steering the boat.
My first action*was to further reduce sail by putting in*reef 2.
When that didn't help I started thinking about a possible rudderproblem.
By using my engine en bowthruster I managed to keep the boat heading up into*the wind and thus lowering the mainsail.
Being pushed by the current towards the entrance of Zeebrugge ( a very busy port close to Blankenberge ) I called the coast guard and asked for a tow.
A few days later I saw what I already suspected : Only the aluminium rudder blade shaft + parts of the aluminium frame are left of the rudder.

I contacted the local Hanse dealer who send a email to the factory.
The*respons from Hanse Yachts wasn't*very positive :
*
" It is very difficult to order a new rudder. Our supplier does no* longer work*for HanseYachts."
" If we order the rudder with our old supplier we need exactly details about measures."


It seems that they no longer work with the Polish Production facility.
For me waiting minimum 4 weeks for a new rudder is unacceptable.
The sent me a pdf with construction details.*uploads/20110719_121422_detail_roer_Han.pdf
My situation is to say the least very upsetting. I use my Hanse 371 to organise sailing tours during the summer. With this problem I'm facing a disastrous summer season.

[Sandero]

I recall reading about Hanse rudder problems several years ago... I can't recall where the material was. As I am not considering buying a Hanse or any boat for that matter... I filed it away in.... that's weird and interesting... If this information was out there... one would think anyone considering a Hansa purchase would think twice and maybe consider some sort of retro fit????

here from 08:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...hts-15377.html

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Seems the replacement problem lies not only with rudders but here's another rudder problem of theirs.. maybe a recall of all boats fitted with the Polish Product is in order..??
Lets face it.. would you be happy with exactly the same rudder as replacement

Hi,
*
While being at sea in windy conditions ( 5/6 Bft ) I noticed problems with* steering the boat.
My first action*was to further reduce sail by putting in*reef 2.
When that didn't help I started thinking about a possible rudderproblem.
By using my engine en bowthruster I managed to keep the boat heading up into*the wind and thus lowering the mainsail.
Being pushed by the current towards the entrance of Zeebrugge ( a very busy port close to Blankenberge ) I called the coast guard and asked for a tow.
A few days later I saw what I already suspected : Only the aluminium rudder blade shaft + parts of the aluminium frame are left of the rudder.

I contacted the local Hanse dealer who send a email to the factory.
The*respons from Hanse Yachts wasn't*very positive :
*
" It is very difficult to order a new rudder. Our supplier does no* longer work*for HanseYachts."
" If we order the rudder with our old supplier we need exactly details about measures."


It seems that they no longer work with the Polish Production facility.
For me waiting minimum 4 weeks for a new rudder is unacceptable.
The sent me a pdf with construction details.*uploads/20110719_121422_detail_roer_Han.pdf
My situation is to say the least very upsetting. I use my Hanse 371 to organise sailing tours during the summer. With this problem I'm facing a disastrous summer season.

Wow...no lateral surface area to support the foam.

[Scout 30]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Your thought process makes sense but you have to believe that the CE rating really means something similar to a Lloyds rating of the past. You do your homework and you find that the CE rating calls for thru hulls to last 5 years and as pure brass will last that long the builders use brass. Bronze is the proper metal for thru hulls but the high production builders can save lots of money using inferior products that in this case can sink the boat. What does that say about CE ratings and builders who build down to those ratings?These high production boats are all much cheaper than a higher quality built boat. Why expect a low price and high quality??
Who in their right mind really trusts what companies tell you? Volkswagen told their customers they produced clean diesel engines, right! All the cigarette companies told their purchasers that you didn't have to be worried about cancer. Trump is going to build a wall between America and Mexico and Mexico will pay for it. I could right a book on why you can't trust companies that self regulate. Don't believe the government either, they knew damn well that all the emission testing they were doing never even came close to real world results. We all want to believe that we can buy something cheap and get the same quality as something expensive, there are some folks on this forum that push those ideas but it's just wiser to be a skeptic, teach your kids to be skeptics as well, best favor you can give them.

Still blaming the victim. We all get that corporations lie to their customers. However, the FACT is that they have a responsibility to tell the truth. And when they are caught in a lie they have to pay the consequences. Volkswagen is losing billions of dollars because of their lie. It is up to all of us to always fight to hold them accountable. Saying the victim should have known better is the opposite of that. You shouldn't have to be a nautical engineer to buy a safe reliable boat.

[meatservo]

It seems Hanse might have some legal issues in the future, any google search will probably turn up some of these threads if they did any due diligence, AWW has exposed a design issue that needs to be addressed by all manufacturers that hold their boats out to be blue water capable. That includes keels and rudders...

CE and Six Sigma, PC crap.
meatservo

[Celestialsailor]

That was helpful