Undecided Cabin Cruiser or Sailboat

[Motor-R-Sail]

I have contemplated living on a boat for many years now. Now I need to decide which type I want, an express cruiser or a sailboat. I live near Savannah GA and there are several barrier islandscreeks and rivers here, probably all up and down the east coast. So my question to the forum is which is better to island hop locally for weekend getaways and will that same vessel be good for long distance cruising further down the east coast or to The Bahamas or Caribbean?

[TrentePieds]

Your question conflates three discrete sets of considerations or "use cases" to use the American expression:

A) Requirements for boats whose principal purpose is to serve as a permanent, or at least long-term home must relegate the requirements for passage making to secondary importance. Thus they cannot be good for either short or long passages.

B) Requirements for boats that are to be used principally for short passages constrained by time requirements dictated by shore responsibilities of some kind.

C) Requirements for boats that are to be used for making long passages unrestrained by requirements emanating from shoreside responsibilities.

No boat can be designed that will serve all three "use cases" well. Attempting to do so will results in a boat that will serve NO use case well.

For long oceanic passages, common sense will tell you that a sailboat is better suited than an "express cruiser". For use while bound to the shore by e.g. job responsibilities, common sense will tell you that a power boat is better suited than a sailboat. For living permanently aboard or living aboard for longish periods of time in the manner that most of us live ashore, NO boat - power or sail - will suit. Living aboard requires a SERIOUS shift in personal habits!

Bonne chance :-)!

TrentePieds

[Motor-R-Sail]

Thanks for the information. Yes it would be used as a permanent residency and I do know about serious change in living habits. I've been researching this for years weighing the pros and cons for both. I have been leaning towards a sailboat because I do want to do long passages at some point in the future. A sailboat on a long passage will be easier on the pocket fuel wise. I am not clear on using a sailboat to motor to the local islands, a distance to short to raise sails. Will it still be more fuel efficient than a motor boat on these shorter passages?

[JPA Cate]

Hello, Motor-R-Sail,

If you have a decent sailing boat, no distance is too short to raise sails!

From your screen name, I think you might be more comfortable motoring; however, it takes competent motor yachts with big fuel tanks to accomplish some of the worlds necessarily long passages. Your money, your preferences, your decisions.

Ann, with somewhere over 185,000 nautical miles in sailboats.

[cal40john]

Originally Posted by Motor-R-Sail

Thanks for the information. Yes it would be used as a permanent residency and I do know about serious change in living habits. I've been researching this for years weighing the pros and cons for both. I have been leaning towards a sailboat because I do want to do long passages at some point in the future. A sailboat on a long passage will be easier on the pocket fuel wise. I am not clear on using a sailboat to motor to the local islands, a distance to short to raise sails. Will it still be more fuel efficient than a motor boat on these shorter passages?

How much sailing have you done? If very little, find a way to get some time on a sailboat. Friends, talk to a sailing club, go down to the docks on Friday beer can races, buy a couple of lessons, etc.

You have to enjoy the experience of sailing if you get a sailboat, otherwise get a powerboat.

[mvweebles]

Within a given length, powerboats tend to have more comfortable living accomodations than sailboats (there are exceptions of course). If crossing an ocean is important, there are many affordable options in sailboats, virtually none in powerboats. For coastal cruising with hops less than 300 nms or so, either sail or power are viable. Some folks are passionate about sailing so only a sailboat makes sense for them. Others are passionate about being on the water and make their selection based on other criteria such as comfort, accessibility, etc.

Regardless of sail or power, you should get the boat that suits your needs in the foreseeable future, not the distant dream state future. While on paper it makes sense to not rule out crossing oceans by buying a coastal cruiser (or rationalize that a blue water boat is strong and therefore a better coastal cruiser), in reality your tastes and priorities will change over time. There is no way to accurately forecast what you will need or want in 5-10 years time. Buy the boat you will use today, not later. There are many, many examples of coastal boats - power or sail - being responsibly and comfortably run long distances by owners who decided to go with the boat they owned, not the blue water boat glossy magazines say is best for the passage.

Fuel costs with powerboats is a bit of a myth and is often accompanied with extreme hyperbole on CF. I know of three people who circumnavigated on a sailboat then converted to power and did significant passages on their powerboat, one of whom converted back to sail after 6-yrs of exploring the entire Caribbean on a Grand banks 42 trawler. All three say the long-term ownership/operation costs were essentially the same (sailboats have engines, same support systems, and when you include price of sails, rigging, spars......). The variable with power question is speed - if you compare a 42 foot motoryacht doing 7 knots with a sailboat, long-term cost difference is inconsequential. If you compare sail to a 42-foot motoryacht running at 18-20 it's, fuel costs are breathtaking, which is why vast majority of 40-ish foot powerboats run at displacement speeds and burn 3-4 gph total. When sailors figure this out, many switch to power and never go back.

Bottom line. The biggest decision for you is whether living on a boat works for your situation, and whether it's even a viable option (liveaboard slips are difficult to impossible in many locations). Sail or power is less of decision.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by Motor-R-Sail

Thanks for the information. Yes it would be used as a permanent residency and I do know about serious change in living habits. I've been researching this for years weighing the pros and cons for both. I have been leaning towards a sailboat because I do want to do long passages at some point in the future. A sailboat on a long passage will be easier on the pocket fuel wise. I am not clear on using a sailboat to motor to the local islands, a distance to short to raise sails. Will it still be more fuel efficient than a motor boat on these shorter passages?

For permanent residence, most sailboats and express cruisers will mean you're living in a cave when weather sends you below.

If that's a problem for you...

Some of the more modern cats (either sail or power), and power boats with flybridges, can get address that syndrome... latter probably better than former.

Coastal cruising and ocean passages are different animals. You might consider solving the "nearby" version now, then change boats -- using everything you've learned along the way to guide selection -- if/when you get to the "long passages" thing.

-Chris

[TrentePieds]

Given equal LWLs, sailboats are infinitely more comfortable under way than power boats, simply because the essential design features of sailboats make their motion, particularly in roll and yaw, slower than that of power boats - in short sailboats are less "sick-making".

EFFECTIVE speeds through the water are rather the same for sailboats and power boats having displacement hulls, but power boats are - surprise - more "fuel hungry". You can, of course, choose a planing or semi planing hull for a power boat in order to get greater speed, but the fuel cost, even calculated by "mile run", is a good deal higher. Sailboats are almost universally diesel powered, the antique "Universal" gas pot notwithstanding, whereas a high proportion of power boats are gas-pots. I've seen a few of them burn to the waterline in no time flat, and I've seen two of them explode!

TP, which as the name alludes to, is 30 feet LOA has a 20HP diesel. She burns 1/2 gallon an hour at six knots. That is typical for a cruising sailboat of 30 feet, so why worry about fuel expense when as Ann, who has vast experience, rightly said: "No distance is too short to raise sail".

Within marinas you are almost always FORBIDDEN to sail, but once you are past the marina entrance, get your canvas up! Of course the less your rig is encumbered by modern "labour saving devices" or devices intended to facilitate racing, the easier and quicker it is to get your canvas up and down, and therefore to sail everywhere.

To sail everywhere requires a "weatherly" boat, i.e. one that will sail close to the wind. To make way to weather requires certain boat characteristics which you should familiarize yourself with by reading suitable literature. Then, when you've learned what those characteristics are, get yourself a modest size weatherly boat, i.e. a boat having the characteristics you are now familiar with. Then learn to sail it effectively. Making good way to weather has two aspects: A boat of sound design, and good boat handling by skipper and crew. Once you've got those things under control in something of, say, 30 feet LOA, you can graduate to something larger and more able to accommodate the compromises that are necessary both in regards to the boat arrangements and to the owner's attitude and habits if the boat is to be a "home" for prolonged periods of time.

Oceans are crossed all the time in boats of 30 feet or so. In fact, a sistership to TP, but now fifty years old rather than TP's forty, is in New Zealand having crossed from her birthplace in Vancouver, B.C., so think about the fact that it is not the boat that takes the crew safely across vast distances. It is the crew, particularly the skipper, that takes the boat safely across vast distances.

You say you are in Savanna. I have no experience at all in those waters but cogitate on the fact that 50 miles is a good, long, tiring day's run when you are in a boat that generally "makes good" only six knots. You might amuse yourself with laying out several hypothetical sailing plans predicated on 6 knots VTW (Velocity Through the Water) to determine whether either a sailboat or a displacement power boat even makes sense for what you want to do in the next few years. In those plans you need, of course, to account for the current in rivers and for tidal streams. You will find that making a passage, even a short one, in a boat is NOTHING like hopping in your RAM350 and blowing it down Route 16 :-)!

All the best to you!

TP

[desodave]

Lots of good advice above ... remember that the vast majority of us are sailors, or at least own and cruise sailboats. All boats are a compromise of some kind and you're unlikely to find one that meets every need/want.. One issue not yet raised concerns the draft of sail and motor boats, and monohull sailboats have much more under the water than a similar length power boat. I have no boating experience in your area but understand that a lot of your boating would be in relatively shallow water ... the power boat might be more suited to that environment. Or, if you do prefer a sailboat, look for one with a shallower draft for those creeks and rivers.

[gonesail]

especially in the coastal SE waters .. a big problem is draft. anything over 3 feet can result in grounding. also the big tides can overwhelm small sailboats. a motor sailor could be your answer but they are few and far between.

[TrentePieds]

I'm not sure what gonesail means by: "also the big tides can overwhelm small sailboats."

The problem with "big tides"| is not the rise and fall of water, it is the current set up in narrow passages by this rise and fall. Given the geology of the Georgia coastline I can see where there could be additional hazards arising from the currents set up by the tides due to a constant shifting of shoals.

Here, in the Salish Sea, we have many places where the tidal streams run 8 knots. In a "six knot boat" you obviously cannot negotiate such a pass when the current is running against you. Nor should you try to do so when the current is with you, because your "speed over the ground" would then be 14 knots. In waters where the ground is ever shifting, as I believe it is in Georgia's inshore waters, that can ground you awfully fast! And if you ground at 14 knots, you are not likely to come off again under your own power - or at all!

So, Motor-R, IMO you'd best get a fairly high-powered semi-planing powerboat with enuff umph behind 'er to give you twenty knots to get you out of the trouble you'll inevitably get yourself into. And hang the fuel expense. Safety is more important! And also, do NOT skimp on learning basic coastwise navigation - called "pilotage" - i.e. the art of reading a paper chart and, even more, the art of "reading the water". In your waters, faulty pilotage has the potential to be catastrophic in a way it can't be in my waters.

Once you've found your sea legs and become what in my time was known as an "AB" (an "Able-Bodied Seaman") you can begin to contemplate a vessel the "driving" of which is rather more demanding than the driving of an automobile!

TP

[JPA Cate]

cal40John really said it: you have to enjoy the process of sailing to be happy with a sailboat. Therefore, getting some experience on a few of them would be a good idea. It may or may not be a good fit for you. Some people take to it like a duck to water; others, not so well. I wouldn't let my propensity to motion sickness get in my way: there are effective solutions to that problem for me. Your choice, again.

Ann

[c.K.]

Originally Posted by Motor-R-Sail

I have contemplated living on a boat for many years now. Now I need to decide which type I want, an express cruiser or a sailboat. I live near Savannah GA and there are several barrier islandscreeks and rivers here, probably all up and down the east coast. So my question to the forum is which is better to island hop locally for weekend getaways and will that same vessel be good for long distance cruising further down the east coast or to The Bahamas or Caribbean?

Hey Motor -r- sailor
Before you buy anything rent either a motor cruiser or sail boat and see how you like it
Good luck

[Hoodsail]

MRS: I cant speak to living on a boat, but would suggest getting experience as has been suggested to possibly refine your goals. For example, there are a number of off shore sailing schools that will take you offshore to learn whether that is something you would like to pursue (and include or not in boat decision). I've been offshore and it is unique and best to experience before setting off for an Atlantic crossing.
Also draft as has been mentioned can be addressed with centerboards - my boat draws 3ft 10" w/ board up (which is 98% of time), so that doesnt have to be an issue. Lastly, there is nothing so pretty as a sailboat with every stitch of canvas up gliding through the water... Of course I have motorboat friends who opine: too much work, too slow, too complicated with all that "spaghetti" on deck?! All the best in your search..and count me down as: SAILBOAT - 1, POWERBOAT - zero

[Setbud]

It’s good that you are asking this question.
I got a great deal on my first Catalina 30. I bought it from a fellow who had recently retired and had dreamt of living on a sailboat.
When he found out how complicated sailing is, and how small a 30’ sailboat feels to live in, he sold me his sailboat and bought a powerboat.
If I was going to live on a boat and wasn’t passionate about sailing, as I am, I would choose a powerboat. But I probably wouldn’t take very long trips.
Good luck.
Steve