Starlink RV vs. Iridium GO! exec

[Jbaffoh]

Originally Posted by CarlF

That said, Starlink should not be your only offshore communication system. But as a backup, I think the InReach is a far better choice than IridumGo - mostly because it doesn't require a seperate cell phone. It's also much cheaper.

Once you have Starlink you would only be using Iridium or InReach as a backup if Starlink failed. Why spend so much per month for an Iridium GO that would hopefully never be needed?

How are the voice comms and weather routing with the inReach? Oh yeah, the former is non-existent and the latter is horrible. Plus, as others have mentioned, Garmin bought inReach and, with everything they touch, they find a way to screw you.

[svmobert]

It's interesting to watch the varying points of view on this topic. I will offer my point of view as someone who, like Scott Berg, has experience and knowledge in offshore communications and provides support to sailors, yacht owners, etc as a career...

1.) Iridium Go Exec hardware is a bit more expensive vs. the existing Iridium Go! hardware. For that you get 40X speed (88kbps vs 2.4kbps) and much better voice quality vs. the Go!. You still get 100% global coverage (no gaps) and compatibility with PredictWind Offshore, various mail apps, and ability to make voice calls, send SOS requests, message with friends/family, etc. And the service plan doesn't actually have to cost more than the Go!. The most common Go! plan is the Go! Unlimited (aka Go150+) which has been about $140/mo but is going up to ~$155/mo starting January 1st. The Go Exec plans are not unlimited but they don't really need to be either. If you use the Go Exec just like a regular Go, you would be unlikely to ever hit the 25MB data usage in a month that the lowest $110/mo plan provides. Consider that 25MB of data transfer would take (best possible case) 25 hours of connection time on a normal Go!. How many of you are connected 25 hours in a month on a Go!. And in reality, that 25MB would probably take more like 35 hours due to signal strength and other variables. So for a little more up front, and probably about the same monthly or even less, the Go Exec lets you get your GRIBs and Emails in seconds rather than minutes, hold a voice conversation that you can actually understand well, and still provide the SOS and portabilty features of the traditional Go!.

2.) All that said, the traditional Go! is still valid and being sold and will likely remain on the market for a while with it's Unlimited data/sms plan, just a higher prices into 2023 vs 2022 and before.

3.) Starlink RV is not intended to be used offshore. Yes it works in some places and as the satellite constellation is expanded and new birds with laser cross links are put into place, where it works is expanding rapidly. But as others have mentioned, there is no reason to let RV users connect offshore (past 10nm) and every reason to prevent it. At the moment, Starlink has bigger fish to fry, they need customers, they need to build out their customer support, they need to launch more satellites, appease the FCC and other regulatory bodies, get more investment money, launch 3rd party satellites to get more revenue, etc, etc. As soon as they believe they have a viable way to prevent usage outside the terms of service without breaking the features they advertise, they will do it. Consider that the RV service plan, at $135/mo generally provides faster service than a $10K/mo VSAT plan already. So even if you were commercial or superyacht you could save money with 2 x inmotion RV units ($5000 hardware total and $270/mo for service) vs a Maritime package ($10K hardware and $5k/mo for service). Even if the RV service is slower than maritime, it's orders of magnitude cheaper and still faster than the VSAT service these vessels have now. As long as an RV unit can provide service in the ocean, no reasonable customer will pay for maritime. They have to limit it severely, it's just a matter of time. Further, small leisure customers are far more customer service draining than large yachts and commercial customers and lower profit margins at the same time. In reality, there are more commercial and yacht customers who will pay $5K/mo than there are leisure customers who will pay $135/mo or more. And the $135/mo customer takes more customer service resources on average than the $5K/mo customer.

4.) On safety/distress.. Starlink is NOT at all equivalent to a Go! or other maritime service as far as a distress communications device. In order to use Starlink as a distress device you need to use some 3rd party app on a 3rd party device (iphone/android, etc) to access voice services provided by a 3rd party (VoIP service, Verizon, T-Mobile, etc) all of which can't provide valid 911 services or position.. So then you need to relay your position manually or deploy another device for the purpose, and it's not portable, or usable if ships batteries or electrical are down.

A Go!, Go! Exec, 9575 phone, ISatPhone2, InReach, etc all combine the services into a single integrated offering.. global satellite coverage with no gaps, battery powered device, integrated gps position, integrated SOS messaging that forwards emergency info and position automatically, dedicated SOS call center, and ability to communicate 2-way with SAR.

Starlink can't do any of that on its own. And it's not meant to. And NO one should expect it to provide emergency comms offshore if it's not at least a Maritime plan and even then all of the above limitations still apply.

5.) There are lots of good things about Starlink, the RV plan especially provides broadband services at higher speeds than VSAT at much lower cost, but the RV plan is not intended to compete with or act like a VSAT plan either. Technical coverage keeps getting better by the week, but any RV user expecting to benefit from that long term is fooling themselves.

6.) When it comes to planning for and acquiring communications systems for onboard use, you take a look at your needs (personal communications, weather, email, emergency, etc) and map that to the available solutions and a budget. If your needs include offshore emergency comms, you need a solution that will actually guarantee that (or at least is designed to come close to a gaurantee since nothing is ever 100%). So you go to what the providers state in their terms of service and what they advertise their product will do, then you get insight from other users to see if reality is close to what is advertised. In Starlinks case, the reality is BEYOND the terms and advertised service, simply because they haven't had time to create technological enforcement of the terms. You need to consider that when you are in the middle of the Pacific and posting your speed test on Facebook, that could be the last time it works and then you need a backup, something like a Go, or 9575, or Go Exec, or whatever.. InReach is cool but you can't make calls or download weather to PredictWind Offshore/Luckgrib/Nobeltec/etc so it's more limited.

All in all, at the moment, for anyone going more than 10nm offshore, Starlink is an AND not an OR.

7.) Digression about Go Exec and Starlink. One thing that the Go! provides is vessel tracking features, which can be used with various providers including Predictwind. PredictWind also has a device called Datahub which can do vessel tracking (among other things) through regular Internet connections like VSAT, Fleet One, Starlink, etc. It also supports the Go Exec. So you can use a Datahub with Go Exec and Starlink as your vessel tracking solution for others to follow you, as long as one of them is online at any given time. For Starlink users that want/need a satellite backup solution, Go Exec and Fleet One are both really good options that can be seamlessly integrated with Starlink and/or 4G/5G Cellular. Something you can't do with traditional Go!

8.) Last note/point.. To clarify what was mentioned in another comment, we do offer suspendable service for Iridium Go and well as Handhelds, and have the ability to suspend and resume a single SIM (and maintain the phone number) on a month to month basis, both with +1 USA phone numbers and normal Iridium +8816 numbers. No need to keep/buy spare SIMs and we can resume/suspend with a simple email, whatsapp, or SMS message once signed up.

Just my $0.02 from years of technology, my own offshore sailing, and operating a business that provides communication services to sailors.

[RedneckRedcoat]

So I have both iridium go and starlink rv. I’ve clocked 4000 nautical miles with the IRGo , for using as a communications package it’s ok, text and phone. For downloading whether it’s not worth it. By the time the files have downloaded the weather has already changed. If you’re using it as a way to track where you are it’s also ok.

I am an IT Consultant that only contracts with Fortune 500 companies. I have used RV offshore and near shore. I video conference at least two times a day. My kids do homeschooling via an online school. I can update weather on the fly. Is starlink full proof, nope but there isn’t a system at there that is.

The two products are not the same and do 2 completely different jobs.

I won’t be keeping the iridium go, I’m swapping it for a garmin inreach, 1/3 of the price and does the same calls, text and tracking. It also uses the same iridium network !

I wish people would stop speculating about what starlink will and won’t do. You’re not a spokes person for the company and you making assumptions not based on fact.

Starlink RV now only comes with the more expensive antenna, two boating buddies recently tried to purchase the rv version and could only buy it with the $2500 antenna.

I have not modified my antenna and I know of at least 5 other boats with it installed that have not modified it. Huge mistake in my opinion as you void all warranty and can permanently damage the antenna.

Since the last firmware update the antenna uses the motors less and hence the amount of power is reduced. But if you did your calculations properly amps=watts/volts it only draws about 1amp anyways. I have incandescent lights still on the boat that draw more.

If you’re that worried about current draw add another lithium battery.

The maritime version is aimed at , commercial airlines, cruise ships and large motor vessels not your an average sailboat hence the cost. The maritime version has redundancy and more bandwidth. Will starlink restrict use …maybe ……but probably not. Does it cost starlink more to do satellite to satellite links ,rather than satellite to ground , absolutely not. They already do satellite to satellite so it’s is a myth that that costs more.

Technology is constantly evolving so my advise is get the version you can afford and then get inreach as another tool

[svmobert]

InReach does not do calls! It does support texting but without a dedicated phone number, it can and does change, so your friends can't initiate a conversation with you. It is cheaper and it may be the right choice for some users, but it is NOT equivalent to a Go!

Originally Posted by RedneckRedcoat

I won’t be keeping the iridium go, I’m swapping it for a garmin inreach, 1/3 of the price and does the same calls, text and tracking. It also uses the same iridium network !

[SV Coronado]

I have an Iridium Go and use it a fair bit - including several times a day while crossing the Atlantic. As others have said, Iridium Go and Starlink are for two different needs. I don't have Starlink, but I plan on installing it in the next six months. Starlink is a replacement for all the SIM cards I buy in a year, not a replacement for my Iridium Go. You still need Iridium Go to download the weather in the middle of the ocean. The Iridium Go sucks, but it's all we have unless you're a billionaire. I recommend buying a used Iridium Go after the Iridium Go exec comes out and using it only for ocean crossing; for near-shore, use Starlink. You can enable the Iridium Go for the few weeks you need it to cross an ocean. Buying a new Iridium Go exec is a waste of money (IMHO).

[makki99]

Originally Posted by Tedd

Why would they do that?

Because they already did that in the past. I had a working Starlink in Munich, booked "RV" and moved it to IT - never worked again, no Updates, needed to be replaced finally..

Makki

[Nic Homan]

I’m told that the energy consumption of starlink is substantial. We use Iridium Go for weather and occasional email . It is glacially slow but does the job with small energy required.

We will get starlink eventually for hanging around in marinas and local anchorages but not crossing oceans yet reliably

[makki99]

Originally Posted by Nic Homan

I’m told that the energy consumption of starlink is substantial. We use Iridium Go for weather and occasional email . It is glacially slow but does the job with small energy required.

We will get starlink eventually for hanging around in marinas and local anchorages but not crossing oceans yet reliably

Maybe a good question, I can take a closer look on energy consumption of starlink (once my third dish works there again..) in the Adria during the next weeks. It would be "unfair" to measure now in Munich under snow as it surely heats here - and has to.

Makki

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by Nic Homan

I’m told that the energy consumption of starlink is substantial. We use Iridium Go for weather and occasional email . It is glacially slow but does the job with small energy required.

We will get starlink eventually for hanging around in marinas and local anchorages but not crossing oceans yet reliably

Officially, it uses up to 150W, but that is max, with snow melt on, motors running, etc.

Without snowmelt, and with the dish parked and not moving, consumption varies depending on use, satellite tracking etc. Instantaneous power consumption ranges from about 20W to 70W. It is about 50W average over time. About 90Ah per day at 12V.

[billdomb]

Originally Posted by wholybee

Because they sell a maritime product. As soon as they realize the Maritime product isn't selling well because everyone is buying the cheaper RV product, you can expect the RV product will be restricted.

They very well also might disable service on dishes that have had the motors disconnected.

All speculation, but it would be naive to rely on it not happening.

What's this about disconnecting the motors? Why would one want to do that while cruising?

[wholybee]

Originally Posted by billdomb

What's this about disconnecting the motors? Why would one want to do that while cruising?

With the motors connected, the dish will attempt to point north (or south in the southern hemisphere.) It does this by tilting flat, then rotating about its axis, then tilting back down in the new direction. While it is doing this, signal is lost.

However, if you disconnect the motors while the dish is oriented flat, it is able to track satellites only with the phased array, and the signal is much more reliable when you are in motion. The $2500 RV dish is designed this way, mounts flat, with no motors.

The disadvantage is that (aside from the government approvals not allowing it, TOS etc.) there are more satellites to the north. So, if it is kept facing north, theoretically you get higher speeds and more reliability. But it isn't as reliable when it needs to move to keep it facing north. The $2500 dish is larger and has more steering ability with the phased array, so it less needs to point north.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by CarlF

That said, Starlink should not be your only offshore communication system. But as a backup, I think the InReach is a far better choice than IridumGo - mostly because it doesn't require a seperate cell phone. It's also much cheaper.

Once you have Starlink you would only be using Iridium or InReach as a backup if Starlink failed. Why spend so much per month for an Iridium GO that would hopefully never be needed?

And finally, Starlink is still rolling out ocean service. If you need to cross the Pacific right now, it's not ready. By next March it should be in place. There's no reason to think service will be "spotty" or unreliable after March - that has never been the case ashore once Starlink is officially available.

Reality is most cruisers don't have any of the satellite services.

If your back is out of alignment because your wallet is too thick, sure get them all.

But if you need to pick, I would get the one that is more useful in general. The old style sat services really have little use outside of crossings. Even if it cuts out 300-400miles from shore, Starlink buys you an extra couple days of weather info but as you say, within the year, it will likely have full coverage. Only question is how they treat roaming beyond your home continent.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Scott Berg

Actually that is why they would; there are more large yachts and many more ships who will happily pay for the ocean service as a faster competitor to ViaSat. The cost for open ocean coverage is higher then coastal by an order of magnitude due to the laser link satellites that are required. My bet is that they release a smaller, 12/24v marine antenna for coastal sailing and fence in the ocean for their open system and have an (expensive) by the GB option for smaller users with speed throttling. I spent a career in this world and worked with a lot of carriers. StarLink just can't sell one system to MSC or Pioneer at 5K/mon and another to you at 135/mon with the same service. And there are more ships than there are ocean cruisers. In the long run I think for coastal sailing it will be wonderful as it is now, but the 300nm offshore days will come to an end on current contacts. If you read the fine print you're already violating the terms of the contract. Like a lot of things (like Solar) boaters are .09% of the market Decisions are made on a macro scale that doesn't take them into account. I'm sure StarLink's tech's are happy for the free beta testing they're getting but I'm counting on a limitation in the future. That isn't a bad thing, just a thing,

Oh, and another issue; what happens when a country asks them to block you an an anchorage because your service is competing with their local common carriers. The ITU has some regs on this but they're a long way from being updated to deal with modern technology.

Not saying don't buy/use StarLink, just go into it with an informed and open mind and read the agreement; those limiting clauses are there for a reason...

Oh, and I predict the largest customer will be transoceanic aircraft reselling the bandwidth aboard; United, American, or British Airways could negotiate quite a deal and high speed will be available on most flights... as a long time IT consultant I'd have loved that!

Actually really simple. MSC is not going to put the service in the Captain's personal name. It's going to be a corporate account. So, it's easy to differentiate. If you look at how ISPs work, they often charge far more for commercial accounts vs residential.

Also, with 5-8k people trying to access it on a cruise ship, it's going to spend most of the day maxing out the bandwidth (with multiple systems onboard from the stories I've seen). Versus a typical cruising boat where it won't even be turned on most of the day.

I agree, ocean crossing cruisers are an infinitesimal part of the market but at $5k/m it will simply kill that tiny market, so may as well take the $135/month and let the use the otherwise unused bandwidth.

[Arclight]

I used an Iridium Go with PredictWind on two transatlantic crossings, for a year in the Caribbean and on a single-hand voyage from PR up to Annapolis. It functioned flawlessly and I highly recommend it. With the PredictWind app, I always knew what the weather was going to be and I was able to communicate via email and voice.

[makki99]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Actually really simple. MSC is not going to put the service in the Captain's personal name. It's going to be a corporate account. So, it's easy to differentiate. If you look at how ISPs work, they often charge far more for commercial accounts vs residential.

Also, with 5-8k people trying to access it on a cruise ship, it's going to spend most of the day maxing out the bandwidth (with multiple systems onboard from the stories I've seen). Versus a typical cruising boat where it won't even be turned on most of the day.

I agree, ocean crossing cruisers are an infinitesimal part of the market but at $5k/m it will simply kill that tiny market, so may as well take the $135/month and let the use the otherwise unused bandwidth.

@valhalla360 I understand but do not fully agree with you. Given the fact we have "nothing" affordable as sailors on small boats - its nice if a huge part of that is financed by cruise-ships passengers and it works. I'd call that a "win-win-situation"

Michael