Smallest size "luxury" yacht

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by LittleWing77

Back when I worked on private yachts, Feadship (private custom luxury yacht builder) would not take a commission of anything less that 100-feet.

My Owner was unusual at the time, as the boat commissioned was 125'. The next year, Greg Norman (golfer) commissioned a then-inconceivable 270-foot private yacht... and the market has been insane ever since. (Caveat: These were motor vessels.)

The smallest luxury sailing yacht I ever sailed on as paid crew was a custom Little Harbour 55'. I'll never forget; she actually had a tiny bathtub in the master stateroom - at the request of the Admiral...

So from my perspective, I would say 55' or 60' (and like Rob says, any extra space is lost to 'crew quarters' at the bow).

LittleWing77

p.s. As a matter of curiosity, Keith, what constitutes a REALLY GOOD G&T in your books? My particular poison is Bombay Sapphire with Original Fever Tree tonic and *only* fresh lime...

Away you pagan. Rose's Lime Cordial.

[AKA-None]

Originally Posted by joelhemington

I'm always amazed at how easily we can get off topic in some of these threads.

Somebody mentions Gin and it all goes to hell.

Well there are those who drink gin and then there are heathens

[David B]

Originally Posted by Wckoek

I have heard a saying that luxury yacht only starts at 45 feet or above, because only beyond that size it will offer more amenities.
Does this still holds true for monohull sailboat?


What is the smallest sailboat that you've seen considered a "luxury" yacht?

Depends on your definition of luxury.
Does plenty of room for two people and occasional guests in two double e-suite cabins, air-conditioning throughout, on-board laundry facilites, full independence with diesel generator, desalination, wi-fi, large-screen TV etc, and white leather upholstery to relax on to enjoy such things qualify as luxury?
Possibly, although when you move up to 60', all of that looks and feels better again.

Really subjective!

[Wckoek]

Originally Posted by joelhemington

Yep, the larger cats usually just have bigger cockpits while the bridge decks stay about the same size. That's not a bad thing as most people would prefer more space in the cockpit than the salon. A 50' cat is about the smallest boat I can think of that might be considered a luxury boat as many of them have an ice maker. washing machine and dishwasher installed as well as A/C and at least three heads. I'm thinking super yachts start at about 70'.

Originally Posted by David B

Depends on your definition of luxury.
Does plenty of room for two people and occasional guests in two double e-suite cabins, air-conditioning throughout, on-board laundry facilites, full independence with diesel generator, desalination, wi-fi, large-screen TV etc, and white leather upholstery to relax on to enjoy such things qualify as luxury?
Possibly, although when you move up to 60', all of that looks and feels better again.

Really subjective!

I see, we can agree that one can have airconditioning, washing machine, enough water for shower bathtub at 50'+ boats.
You can have crews at 60'+ boats, and 70'+ boats you can entertain your guest.
Like a post here said, comfortable - luxury - real luxury.

[Spot]

So the bathtub is for making the gin?

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Spot

So the bathtub is for making the gin?

Well that explains the problem with gin

Maybe to make it better next time, don't clean the tub first.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by tkeithlu

I wouldn't consider a monohull sailboat "luxury" until the professional crew took the time to bring me a really good gin and tonic while I watched, fascinated by their work.

I agree.

"Luxury" does not describe cruising unless you have professional crew. Cruising on whatever size of boat is hard work otherwise, and hard work and "luxury" are mutually exclusive concepts in my book.

To comfortably accomodate professional crew -- at least one guy to fix stuff and run errands and keep the odd watch, better a couple so that there is someone to cook and clean up -- you would like to have a boat of at least about 65'.

I had one pro crewman for the first 3 years or so I had this boat. A little tight on a 54 footer but it was GREAT. Unfortunately I lost him when he moved to Australia. I think I need to start looking for a replacement.


English aristocrats like to say -- we'd rather be underhoused than underserved. They know something about luxury! It's all about the crew, not the boat.

[Tayana42]

When my wife and I were young and newly married we dreamed of having a sailboat. We bought a 14’ Dolphin Sr (a Sunfish type boat), put it on top of our VW camper and off we went. Now, that was luxury!

A few years later, after our first child was born, we bought a 24’ Seafarer with a cabin, an alcohol stove, a marine head and a 5 hp British Seagull outboard. Now, that was luxury!

After our second child and moving to the Midwest we had a 16’ daysailer on a trailer that we could keep in the backyard and take to lots of different lakes and even across country. Now, that was luxury!

We moved to Florida and after being boatless for a while we eventually we bought a 19’ Cape Dory Typhoon which we kept in a marina close to our house and my job. I could take an hour lunch break and sail for 45 minutes. Now, that was luxury!

Finally we moved to California and invested in our dream boat, a 1989 Tayana Vancouver 42 with a cutter rig, inboard diesel engine, radar, chart plotter, refrigeration, adequate tankage, gorgeous teak woodwork below, etc. Now, that was luxury!

After more than twenty years of doing most of the maintenance and all of the topside varnish work, I recently broke down and hired someone to do the varnishing. Now, that was luxury!!!

[gonesail]

the definition that I see is a pleasure boat over 33 feet in length. luxury would entail comfort and extravagance. i would think an Alerion 33 would be a luxury yacht to some people

[DanielI]

Originally Posted by LittleWing77

p.s. As a matter of curiosity, Keith, what constitutes a REALLY GOOD G&T in your books? My particular poison is Bombay Sapphire with Original Fever Tree tonic and *only* fresh lime...

Not that anyone asked me, but we’ve got two local distilleries in Santa Fe with excellent Gin: Santa Fe Spirits and Tumbleroot (the latter makes 3 kinds of Gin), which is what I currently have on board. For tonic, I’m using Portland Syrup’s Rose City Tonic, which is tasty and saves a bunch of space.

Back to the original topic: several people mentioned crew on 50-60 foot yachts. I would think on a boat that size, the owner would be in closer quarters with the crew than might be desired. So let me ask:

What’s the largest boat that can be handled by, say, a cruising couple without crew? In other words, how large until you need a crew?

What’s the smallest boat that can take a crew and still give the owner privacy? For sake of argument, define privacy as not needing to see the crew when you don’t want to.

Asked by someone unlikely to ever be able to afford a crew, and unsure he would want one if he could.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by DanielI

Not that anyone asked me, but we’ve got two local distilleries in Santa Fe with excellent Gin: Santa Fe Spirits and Tumbleroot (the latter makes 3 kinds of Gin), which is what I currently have on board. For tonic, I’m using Portland Syrup’s Rose City Tonic, which is tasty and saves a bunch of space.

There was an excellent thread on G&T's some time ago. https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ge-137248.html Note in particular SeaworthyLass' EXCELLENT recipe for home-made tonic. Home-made tonic is a rather different, and better experience, than store-boughten.

Originally Posted by DanielI

Back to the original topic: several people mentioned crew on 50-60 foot yachts. I would think on a boat that size, the owner would be in closer quarters with the crew than might be desired. So let me ask:

What’s the largest boat that can be handled by, say, a cruising couple without crew? In other words, how large until you need a crew?

What’s the smallest boat that can take a crew and still give the owner privacy? For sake of argument, define privacy as not needing to see the crew when you don’t want to.

Asked by someone unlikely to ever be able to afford a crew, and unsure he would want one if he could.

With modern deck gear, there is no upper limit to the size of a boat a couple can sail. At least not before 90 feet or maybe even 100 feet. But who would want to even clean, much less maintain a boat that size, without help?



And there is no lower size limit on a boat with "privacy" -- as long as there are separate cabins. Some older smaller boat in the 30 foot range even had separate companionways for owner's cabin.


I have had pro crew on my boat, and spent a lot of time on other people's boats with pro crew. It's GREAT. You don't need as much privacy as you think -- you choose crew you like to be around. Because no matter how big the boat -- you're still going to interact with the crew a lot.



Just before the pandemic, I did some cruising on my friend's 100 foot motor yacht with 5 crew on board -- ALONE. My friend got busy with something and didn't come. I missed being with my friend, but still, it was great! I had dinner every evening with the captain, who was a really interesting guy, and just enjoyed being around all of them. I took several of them on shore with me at each stop, and we all had a great time.



My 54 foot boat is big enough for a single pro crewman. I've got two guest cabins in addition to my own, so there can be six of us plus one professional, who can bunk in the passage berth. It's a little tight with 7 on board, but doable (and I've done it many times).



But for my use case, about 65 feet with separate crew quarters, for two, with its own entrance and heads, would be just right.


You could take a pro crewman with you in a 45 foot boat. Just less space for guests.



For me, the first function to be given to a pro is maintenance, repairs, supply. I don't really need help sailing the boat; that's the part I enjoy. My own pro crewman did exactly that. He was not much of a sailor, but he could stand a watch, and that was also really helpful. I liked his company, and we did a lot of cruising just the two of us. God, that was nice, not having to fix everything, or run after parts, myself. That's already "luxury", in my book.



That's really all I need. With space for more than one, the next one could either be a steward to help with cooking and serving and cleaning on board, or a really good sailor to help with sailing, and capable of standing watch in challenging conditions so you can get some sleep on a long passage in bad weather.


YMMV.

[Wckoek]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

There was an excellent thread on G&T's some time ago. https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ge-137248.html Note in particular SeaworthyLass' EXCELLENT recipe for home-made tonic. Home-made tonic is a rather different, and better experience, than store-boughten.





With modern deck gear, there is no upper limit to the size of a boat a couple can sail. At least not before 90 feet or maybe even 100 feet. But who would want to even clean, much less maintain a boat that size, without help?



And there is no lower size limit on a boat with "privacy" -- as long as there are separate cabins. Some older smaller boat in the 30 foot range even had separate companionways for owner's cabin.


I have had pro crew on my boat, and spent a lot of time on other people's boats with pro crew. It's GREAT. You don't need as much privacy as you think -- you choose crew you like to be around. Because no matter how big the boat -- you're still going to interact with the crew a lot.



Just before the pandemic, I did some cruising on my friend's 100 foot motor yacht with 5 crew on board -- ALONE. My friend got busy with something and didn't come. I missed being with my friend, but still, it was great! I had dinner every evening with the captain, who was a really interesting guy, and just enjoyed being around all of them. I took several of them on shore with me at each stop, and we all had a great time.



My 54 foot boat is big enough for a single pro crewman. I've got two guest cabins in addition to my own, so there can be six of us plus one professional, who can bunk in the passage berth. It's a little tight with 7 on board, but doable (and I've done it many times).



But for my use case, about 65 feet with separate crew quarters, for two, with its own entrance and heads, would be just right.


You could take a pro crewman with you in a 45 foot boat. Just less space for guests.



For me, the first function to be given to a pro is maintenance, repairs, supply. I don't really need help sailing the boat; that's the part I enjoy. My own pro crewman did exactly that. He was not much of a sailor, but he could stand a watch, and that was also really helpful. I liked his company, and we did a lot of cruising just the two of us. God, that was nice, not having to fix everything, or run after parts, myself. That's already "luxury", in my book.



That's really all I need. With space for more than one, the next one could either be a steward to help with cooking and serving and cleaning on board, or a really good sailor to help with sailing, and capable of standing watch in challenging conditions so you can get some sleep on a long passage in bad weather.


YMMV.

The Moody 54 have good layout for crew especially for that aft cabin.
I guess it all depends on layout.
I've been looking at a longer, faster Futuna 70 when one was available for sale here a few years ago.
A fantastically fast boat and fun to sail but not suitable for having crew despite it's length.
Which 65 foot model of boat if you have in mind that is ideal for keeping a crew?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Wckoek

The Moody 54 have good layout for crew especially for that aft cabin.
I guess it all depends on layout.
I've been looking at a longer, faster Futuna 70 when one was available for sale here a few years ago.
A fantastically fast boat and fun to sail but not suitable for having crew despite it's length.
Which 65 foot model of boat if you have in mind that is ideal for keeping a crew?

Custom build.

But high end European boats of the size often have dedicated crew quarters. HR 64 can be had with an excellent layout for frew, with crew quarters in the forepeak:



That would be perfect for me. In terms of accomodation.

HOWEVER, what I don't like about all these series-built boats is the lack of deck storage, workshop, technical space. That was one of the main reasons why I ended up deciding to go custom.

On my boat, I have: very spacious aft cabin with central queen sized berth with a settee on either side, lots of locker space; forepeak berth with double bed; pullman berth with over and under single berths, passage cabin with one more single berth.

The passage cabin is normally used as a kind of workshop, because it adjoins the engine room. Taking away the mattress from the berth, I have a kind of workbench. Tool storage in drawers and cabinets, and washer/dryer is also built in there.

That's about as good as it gets in this size, but I really miss the storage space, work space, and technical space. I hate my engine room which is too small to walk in, and too big to service everything from outside -- the worst of both worlds. It's "crawl in". Too small for watermaker and other technical gear. I do have a good anchor locker -- big enough to almost stand up in with plenty of space for all ground tackle plus about half my fenders. But that only leaves the lazarette, which is not really big enough for sails and all my deck gear and other crap. Worse, it is accessible only through a single hatch, so getting to stuff at the bottom of it means unloading the whole damned thing. And there is no really good storage for a dinghy except in davits (forcing me to use a folding Avon Lite RIB which can be stored on the foredeck for passages). No good storage for bicycles. No good storage for bulk provisions needed for long passages. This boat, like all cruising boats, is simply not designed for long distance, autonomous cruising in remote areas.

A custom design would solve all these problems, with at least double if not triple the technical and storage space, true walk-in engine room, but cabins no bigger and possibly even smaller than what I have now.

I am also desperate to have a real sail locker with place for rope storage and extra sails.

A lot of people coming from smaller boats are blown away by the spaciousness of my boat, but the grass is always greener. I was actually not, as my previous boat, a Pearson 365, was actually better than this Moody, certainly for its size, in terms of technical and storage space. The entire hull volume aft of the companionway was devoted to deck storage, so we even kept bicycles on board without any problem, no problem with sails and ropes. For that, very little accomodation -- just a tight v-berth plus the salon. But that's a better tradeoff.

[Wckoek]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Custom build.

But high end European boats of the size often have dedicated crew quarters. HR 64 can be had with an excellent layout for frew, with crew quarters in the forepeak:

Attachment 239585

That would be perfect for me. In terms of accomodation.

HOWEVER, what I don't like about all these series-built boats is the lack of deck storage, workshop, technical space. That was one of the main reasons why I ended up deciding to go custom.

On my boat, I have: very spacious aft cabin with central queen sized berth with a settee on either side, lots of locker space; forepeak berth with double bed; pullman berth with over and under single berths, passage cabin with one more single berth.

The passage cabin is normally used as a kind of workshop, because it adjoins the engine room. Taking away the mattress from the berth, I have a kind of workbench. Tool storage in drawers and cabinets, and washer/dryer is also built in there.

That's about as good as it gets in this size, but I really miss the storage space, work space, and technical space. I hate my engine room which is too small to walk in, and too big to service everything from outside -- the worst of both worlds. It's "crawl in". Too small for watermaker and other technical gear. I do have a good anchor locker -- big enough to almost stand up in with plenty of space for all ground tackle plus about half my fenders. But that only leaves the lazarette, which is not really big enough for sails and all my deck gear and other crap. Worse, it is accessible only through a single hatch, so getting to stuff at the bottom of it means unloading the whole damned thing. And there is no really good storage for a dinghy except in davits (forcing me to use a folding Avon Lite RIB which can be stored on the foredeck for passages). No good storage for bicycles. No good storage for bulk provisions needed for long passages. This boat, like all cruising boats, is simply not designed for long distance, autonomous cruising in remote areas.

A custom design would solve all these problems, with at least double if not triple the technical and storage space, true walk-in engine room, but cabins no bigger and possibly even smaller than what I have now.

I am also desperate to have a real sail locker with place for rope storage and extra sails.

A lot of people coming from smaller boats are blown away by the spaciousness of my boat, but the grass is always greener. I was actually not, as my previous boat, a Pearson 365, was actually better than this Moody, certainly for its size, in terms of technical and storage space. The entire hull volume aft of the companionway was devoted to deck storage, so we even kept bicycles on board without any problem, no problem with sails and ropes. For that, very little accomodation -- just a tight v-berth plus the salon. But that's a better tradeoff.

I see, probably even the Beneteau Yacht 62 have too small a crew cabin from the layout.
Something over 70 feet like Oyster 745 would be ideal, but 65 is as good from the ownership perspective as per the "smallest size" topic.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Wckoek

I see, probably even the Beneteau Yacht 62 have too small a crew cabin from the layout.
Something over 70 feet like Oyster 745 would be ideal, but 65 is as good from the ownership perspective as per the "smallest size" topic.

Oysters and HR's in the 60's of feet have often large master cabin, two guest cabins, and crew cabin for 2. The longer the boat, the more volume you have to work, which is especially useful if you are doing long passages and/or are going to remote places and need storage space. But more than 60-odd feet is not strictly necessary, especially if you are doing normal (i.e. coastal) cruising with the odd long passage/ARC, etc.


In my opinion 62-65 feet is a very good size, still quite handy for two or single handed, but with enough space for a few guests plus crew.


Still able to fit into, and maneuver inside, many pleasure boat harbours and marinas (not all, of course, by a long shot -- I can't get into many of those in the Baltic even with my 54 feet).


Once you get over 70 feet or so, this starts to become tricky.