Offshore In a northstar 1000?

[Hobosailor]

How much stock do you guys put Into the capsize screening formula? (For this boat it's 1.9). From everything I have read this boat seems like it was made to go off shore but I haven't tested it in heavy weather yet and the cockpit feels very exposed for my liking. I wanted to update the rigging, get new sails, and add some electronics (water maker auto tiller chart plotter etc) and new safety gear, and take it from Vancouver Island to Mexico and beyond in a few years. Is this possible or should I look for a different boat?

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by Hobosailor

How much stock do you guys put Into the capsize screening formula? (For this boat it's 1.9). From everything I have read this boat seems like it was made to go off shore but I haven't tested it in heavy weather yet and the cockpit feels very exposed for my liking. I wanted to update the rigging, get new sails, and add some electronics (water maker auto tiller chart plotter etc) and new safety gear, and take it from Vancouver Island to Mexico and beyond in a few years. Is this possible or should I look for a different boat?

Are you by yourself?
It's a small boat but I would expect it to sail pretty well.
Hughes built good boats, and S&S designs are well regarded.
That said, that design was adapted from a design for a "Half ton class" racing boat, so tankage and space for amenities and cruising stuff is quite lacking.
Another issue is a gas engine.
Capsize screening formula?
It's a bit higher than I would want, but small boats generally have higher #s unless they are total "lead mines".
I'm sure it'll "go offshore", but you'll lead a real minimalist lifestyle.
Exposed cockpit?
It's only ~22>23' on the water, and the cockpit needed to be big enough for a racing crew, (if they weren't sitting on the windward rail).
In that length range something from Alberg/Cape Dory would be more in line for a "cruising" boat.

[Hobosailor]

Thanks I wasn't really sure how it would handle an ocean passage, there isn't much Infor action on these boats.
It being small doesn't rlly bother me, I've dealt with much worse. I curre try live aboard and find it pretty comfortable
The engine is still the atomic 4 from the 70s so the plan is to replace with a 20hp beta marine diesel. Rigging is in good shape but have no idea when it was replaced last. Seems like a good opportunity to upgrade to heavier cables. Tank size isn't bad, has a pretty large (I think 100L? I can't remember exactly) fuel tank put in by the previous owner, and a 50 gallon water tank which i plan on refilling with a 12v watermaker. There's a spot under the cockpit that would be perfect and not be taking up any valuable storage. The sloping decks are a serious pain in the ass though.

I'm just happy to hear it can make the trip. Like I said not much info out there about these

[GordMay]

Capsize Screening Formula [CSF] = Beam ÷ [(Displacement ÷ 64.2)1/3]

The capsize screening value should be less than [or equal to] 2, for ocean racing passages, and, the lower the better.

The Capsize Screening Formula is a somewhat controversial, rough approximation, of the ability of boats to resist capsizing.
This formula doesn’t factor in the location of the ballast, and there therefore the centre of gravity, nor the shape of the hull.

Some earlier CF discussions, about “stability” & the CSF:
Capsize ratio ➥ https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...html#post54442
& ➥ https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...html#post63163

Capsize screening formula ➥ https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...la-260373.html

North Star 1000 Data ➥ https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/north-star-1000/

There are some other [better?] indicators of a vessel’s likelihood of capsize:
Ie:
Angle of Vanishing Stability [AVS] ➥ https://www.yachtdatabase.com/en/encyclavs.jsp
STability IndeX [STIX] ➥ https://www.yachtdatabase.com/en/encyclSTIX.jsp

[Kettlewell]

Looks like a good design for the era. Is it tiller steered? If so, you should be able or maybe already have a dodger big enough to provide some shelter towards the front of the cockpit, and I would want a Bimini for when you get south into the sun. That type of rig (big jibs, small tall main) was popular for the era, but was designed for crewed racing. You'll want to think out carefully what you'll do to reef down and still be able to sail well in stronger winds.

[SomeGuyInaShirt]

Personally I wouldn't do it in that boat especially if you intend to go offshore to somewhere else after Mexico. Have you been in a proper offshore boat? They're REALLY nice IMO. This is one of those questions only you can really answer because it depends on your risk tolerance. How well does that boat heave-to in big seas? I'm guessing very poorly just like my 26' fin keeled sloop does. How fast does the cockpit drain? Have you circumnavigated Vancouver Island yet? You really need to do that before you head off on a big trip, it'll save you from making bad decisions based on speculation. At least if you find you don't like your boat offshore while you're in BC you can sell it more easily. If you find out you hate your boat in the USA it's not that easy to get rid of.

[Hobosailor]

Sorry but if your idea of what constitutes a blue water cruiser is that it's "really nice" then your probably not the guy I'm gonna ask advice from.

[Hobosailor]

The boom is annoyingly low over the cockpit, I've seen others that have a dodger windshield but it never seems to be very big or cover much space. It's definitely on my list tho, to atleast keep some of the waves off.

I'm not sure what you mean about not being able to sail well, while reefed? Is that because the boom is so short or...?

I really wanted to get the boat out on the straight this winter and test it in heavier weather but I've been so busy. Guess maybe that's the only way to truly be sure how it will handle

[SomeGuyInaShirt]

Originally Posted by Hobosailor

Sorry but if your idea of what constitutes a blue water cruiser is that it's "really nice" then your probably not the guy I'm gonna ask advice from.

Haha, fair enough. Didn't mean to offend you.

[Kettlewell]

I'm not sure what you mean about not being able to sail well, while reefed? Is that because the boom is so short or...?

The foretriangle is really big and probably so are your existing headsails. Roller furling a big overlapping headsail usually leaves you with less than an ideal sail shape--usually way too baggy. The main might be fine with a reef or two in it, but you'll need to have a way to rig a smaller jib that will have decent shape to balance things out. Depending on where you are sailing and likely wind speeds one option is to have a higher cut jib without as much overlap as your main working jib, then set something light when the wind is light.

[Hobosailor]

No no sorry dude I also meant no offense. What I meant was looks don't rlly matter. A bad paint job won't affect your sailing lol. It doesn't need to be nice but it does need to be capable. From what I've read it is, that's why I chose it. But I've yet to test it and wanted to know some other opinions, or if anyone had experience with it or it's predecessor the hughes 31

[TrentePieds]

Hobo said: "How much stock do you guys put Into the capsize screening formula?"

My answer is: "None! And you probably shouldn't either"

The Northstar1000 is a boat, as others have said, is a boat designed for racing, not for cruising. Immeasurable damage was done to the popular concept of sailboats, specifically cruising boats, back in the '70 when this design came off Sparkman & Stephens' drafting board. These "ton- boats" of the tantalizing new era of conspicuous consumption (1/4 ton, 1/2 ton, one ton) became so ubiquitous that young men this side of the pond generally have no clue about what a CRUISING boat is like, and what its design parameters are.

I'll bet you the City of Vancouver to a common 8 foot 2be4 that the assumption in S&S's office was that this design would be sailed by a crew consisting of a COMPETENT RACING SKIPPER and a crew of THREE DECK GORILLAS. Any suggestion that the boat would be single-handed in the open ocean would have been met with a sardonic smile.

The “skill sets” of racing skippers differs from that of cruising skippers. The differences are significant, but it is possible, though not common, that both skill sets are found in the same man. If you are one of those fortunate ones, do be careful that you employ the right skill set for the task at hand :-)!

GordMay was kind enough to give you links to material that should disabuse you of the notion that the CSF is anything more than a toy for them wot delight in spurious accuracy – a common enough malaise that fails to recognize that while the CSR is developed on the perfectly stable surface of a desk (or a computer, these days) it cannot account, with respect to safety, for the constantly changing, fluid (Ahem!) operating conditions at sea.

The rig of this boat is a racing rig, not a cruising rig, and that is not really remediable. It does mean that if you heel this boat much beyond 20º while going to weather, it will become “squirrely”, and IMO, though I have not sailed one, if you let her heel to 30º (on flattish water) she may well gripe, and depending somewhat on your experience and competence you may well find yourself in serious trouble. Nothing to do with CSR. EVERYTHING to do with seamanship!

You have said nothing about your experience and competence, so common sense and decency towards a fellow seafaring man compels us us to frame our answers to you on the assumption that you are limited in both regards. Correct us, if we are wrong!

You are planning, so you say, to go south along one of the snarkiest leeward coasts in the world, a coast with very few hidey-holes, and where there are places that even the US Coast Guard fears to tread.

Would there perhaps be merit in winter- cruising this boat in the Straits of Georgia till you can speak on even terms with the men and women in this forum who have thousands and thousands of miles under their keels?

You will be aware that the Beastly Ferry Corporation in the last few days cancelled sailings twixt the “Mainland” and Vancouver Island because, in the judgment of these knowledgeable people, the winds at 60 knots were a tad too high for their 20K-ton vessels to cope with safely. There is absolutely NO need for you to go outside the Swiftsure, nor even much past Race Rocks, to learn what you have to know lest you should wind up in Fiddler's Green before I do :-)!

Be mindful of the four Danes who just perished off the coast of Portugal – also a snarky leeward coast – in a boat designed for something other than serious cruising because they, so the consensus is emerging in their home marina, did not have the required knowledge or skills to do what they set out to do!

All the best to you!

TrentePieds

[Hobosailor]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

The foretriangle is really big and probably so are your existing headsails. Roller furling a big overlapping headsail usually leaves you with less than an ideal sail shape--usually way too baggy. The main might be fine with a reef or two in it, but you'll need to have a way to rig a smaller jib that will have decent shape to balance things out. Depending on where you are sailing and likely wind speeds one option is to have a higher cut jib without as much overlap as your main working jib, then set something light when the wind is light.

Right now it has hank on sails for the main and head sail. I was planning on keeping the main hank on and making the head sail a furler. Maybe theres a way to rig up a second cable so I can have my furling Genoa and also a hank on storm sail?

[Hobosailor]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

Hobo said: "How much stock do you guys put Into the capsize screening formula?"

My answer is: "None! And you probably shouldn't either"

The Northstar1000 is a boat, as others have said, is a boat designed for racing, not for cruising. Immeasurable damage was done to the popular concept of sailboats, specifically cruising boats, back in the '70 when this design came off Sparkman & Stephens' drafting board. These "ton- boats" of the tantalizing new era of conspicuous consumption (1/4 ton, 1/2 ton, one ton) became so ubiquitous that young men this side of the pond generally have no clue about what a CRUISING boat is like, and what its design parameters are.

I'll bet you the City of Vancouver to a common 8 foot 2be4 that the assumption in S&S's office was that this design would be sailed by a crew consisting of a COMPETENT RACING SKIPPER and a crew of THREE DECK GORILLAS. Any suggestion that the boat would be single-handed in the open ocean would have been met with a sardonic smile.

The “skill sets” of racing skippers differs from that of cruising skippers. The differences are significant, but it is possible, though not common, that both skill sets are found in the same man. If you are one of those fortunate ones, do be careful that you employ the right skill set for the task at hand :-)!

GordMay was kind enough to give you links to material that should disabuse you of the notion that the CSF is anything more than a toy for them wot delight in spurious accuracy – a common enough malaise that fails to recognize that while the CSR is developed on the perfectly stable surface of a desk (or a computer, these days) it cannot account, with respect to safety, for the constantly changing, fluid (Ahem!) operating conditions at sea.

The rig of this boat is a racing rig, not a cruising rig, and that is not really remediable. It does mean that if you heel this boat much beyond 20º while going to weather, it will become “squirrely”, and IMO, though I have not sailed one, if you let her heel to 30º (on flattish water) she may well gripe, and depending somewhat on your experience and competence you may well find yourself in serious trouble. Nothing to do with CSR. EVERYTHING to do with seamanship!

You have said nothing about your experience and competence, so common sense and decency towards a fellow seafaring man compels us us to frame our answers to you on the assumption that you are limited in both regards. Correct us, if we are wrong!

You are planning, so you say, to go south along one of the snarkiest leeward coasts in the world, a coast with very few hidey-holes, and where there are places that even the US Coast Guard fears to tread.

Would there perhaps be merit in winter- cruising this boat in the Straits of Georgia till you can speak on even terms with the men and women in this forum who have thousands and thousands of miles under their keels?

You will be aware that the Beastly Ferry Corporation in the last few days cancelled sailings twixt the “Mainland” and Vancouver Island because, in the judgment of these knowledgeable people, the winds at 60 knots were a tad too high for their 20K-ton vessels to cope with safely. There is absolutely NO need for you to go outside the Swiftsure, nor even much past Race Rocks, to learn what you have to know lest you should wind up in Fiddler's Green before I do :-)!

Be mindful of the four Danes who just perished off the coast of Portugal – also a snarky leeward coast – in a boat designed for something other than serious cruising because they, so the consensus is emerging in their home marina, did not have the required knowledge or skills to do what they set out to do!

All the best to you!

TrentePieds

I guess I should have been more specific. I have sailed in bad weather, and sailed the strait many times in my previous boat, also a racer, a cascade 29 (a racer and yet considered be a quality blue water boat so I don't put as much stock into the fact it's a race boat as you I guess.) My skills as a sailor aren't what bothers me, I know I can sail. This boat is new to me and im Extremely busy lately so the chances of me getting to test my boat at all in a winter storm this year are pretty much zero. So I figured I'd ask for people's opinio s on how competent a boat it would be for cruising.
Your saying the rigging is wrong. So would that be the sail shape your referring to?

As for bc ferries canceling trips because of weather. That's nothing new it happens every year. The strait is not a joke and every competent sailor here knows that even 20kn on the strait can create some very large waves. It would be nice to get out and truly see for myself how this boat handles that, but who has the time right now. I'm not even within 100km of my boat right now 😂

[AiniA]

In our travels we were amazed with the incredible range of boats you find in Tahiti, or Oz, or South Africa that have sailed many thousands of miles to get there. Could you do it with this boat properly upgraded? In all likelihood. Would it be my choice in this size and price range (a hugely important consideration)? Probably not.

I would look at this matter slightly differently. Figure our how much this boat is worth as it is ($A). Add on how much it would cost to bring it up to the standard you want ($B). Would kind of boat could you get, already prepped, for $A + $B. Would it do a better job than this boat upgraded? For you to decide.

Final thought, anyone who says you need an Alberg design or something of similar vintage has not sailed long distances in obscure parts of the world . Most of the boats you see are much more recent designs - fin keels, even spade rudders - 'the horror, the horror'.