Need to abandon crew

[Moontide]

Going to have to disagree with goboatingnow. Don't know about the EU but in most countries I've gone to, except Mexico, are fairly hard core about all persons listed on the incoming crew list either leaving with the boat or being otherwise officially removed from the crew list. Either by showing a airline ticket or being officially transferred to another boat. Is certainly true of virtually all or most Caribbean, Central American and Pacific island countries for the reasons stated by a prior poster. In some cases it is a little less formal, but they usually want to compare the incoming crew list to the outgoing one and understand any changes (again except for Mexico which is much looser).


Regarding the problem in Martinique, normally it is the airline that will not let you board to many places without a return ticket. I always send incoming crew an "official" boat letter stating they are coming in as crew and will be departing by boat. Usually works with airlines and immigration but I also tell them to be prepared to buy a full price / refundable ticket for a return date a couple of weeks out and then just cancel it after they get to the boat. Have had to do that myself when returning to my own boat in Trinidad. Had the boat papers, a letter from immigration giving me permission to leave the boat in Trini and other documentation. Airline still made me buy a return ticket while standing there. This was in Los Angeles and I suspect would have been less of a problem if I was originating in Florida as they are more familiar with cruisers doing this.



guess I've been lucky and never run into that kind of situation, but I know of other owners who require crew to hnd them an airline ticket and passport before they leave port as insurance against this type of problem.

[JPA Cate]

We had friends come visit us, joining the boat in Tahiti. They paid their own airfare, and developed a letter of introduction from us, which stated that they had return airfare, and that they would be joining our vessel. There were no problems with immigration, nor Customs, and we all met at the Port Capt's. office the morning they arrived. Their departure was as programmed, flew out of Bora Bora, back to Tahiti, and then home. I suppose they'd had to get visas, but possibly granted on arrival, back then.

Such arrangements do change. We've also had family join us different places. The only whoops we had was Jim's sister's flight out of Fiji left 1/2 hour early. We were lucky to have got her there on time.

My point here is that arrangements for cruising sailboats are always changing. You just have to take the changes in stride. Try and find out what will be required on arrival, and plan for that. Dress better than you normally do aboard: it is viewed as showing them respect. For women, this still means shoulders covered and skirts below the knees, and sandals or shoes; for men, a sport shirt and decent long pants, and shoes. Behave in a friendly, polite, respectful way, and they will help you work through what they require, even if they embarrass you by speaking your language better than you speak theirs. You are a visitor, come to enjoy yourself. Don't take being the skipper of a "ship" too seriously, but be able to show you've dotted the "i's" and crossed the "t's".

Print up your list of items with serial numbers, and have it ready when you go in. Make it easy for them. Some places want to see both of you at once, others, just want the skipper to go in with the passports.

Ann

Someone posted above relative to the woman who'd had to swim ashore to get out of the clutches of the worst skipper we ever met and suggested that it was no big deal, wasn't there, didn't talk to her, and is uninformed about what all happened. She had to leave her clothes behind, she had no money and was in a very darned tight situation for a while. It wasn't just a fuss over nothing.

[goboatingnow]

In three Caribbean islands we had crew leave with no further formality then informing immigration and having the crew list changed. The crew themselves had already left via the airport.

[goboatingnow]

In all EU countries and Scandinavia you clear in as tourists , there is no Obligation that you leave via the yacht.

Same in Antigua , Barbados just required informing immigration the crew list was changing.

Same in the US , crew arrived , cleared in , three weeks later left to tour us and fly home , yacht left separately

As for “ crew “ arriving all of them flew in on tourist visas ( where applicable ) where no return flight was planned they just had a letter from me to say they intended to leave via a yacht ( which wasn’t there in one case when they flew in , and they had to change plans and fly to another island. Again no issues as they had or could acquire tourist visas etc

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

....

My point here is that arrangements for cruising sailboats are always changing. You just have to take the changes in stride. Try and find out what will be required on arrival, and plan for that. Dress better than you normally do aboard: it is viewed as showing them respect. For women, this still means shoulders covered and skirts below the knees, and sandals or shoes; for men, a sport shirt and decent long pants, and shoes. Behave in a friendly, polite, respectful way, and they will help you work through what they require, even if they embarrass you by speaking your language better than you speak theirs. You are a visitor, come to enjoy yourself. Don't take being the skipper of a "ship" too seriously, but be able to show you've dotted the "i's" and crossed the "t's".

Print up your list of items with serial numbers, and have it ready when you go in. Make it easy for them. Some places want to see both of you at once, others, just want the skipper to go in with the passports.

Couldn’t agree more

[BillKny]

Originally Posted by Glasshopper

I got 'cured' from the enthusiasm to take-on unknown crew the last time I did it, so have since been giving this some thought.
My latest ruminations were to advertise for travel companions or 'ride share' in Gumtree parlance and have the people appear on any paperwork as passengers. This also gets rid of any expectation the people may have of being paid and, and employer's workers compensation insurance. Further, in some SE Asian countries (as I recall) the word 'crew' has implications for payment of bond to the Govt authorities when the person joins or leaves the boat.
-Rob.

More BAD internet advice...

Having "passengers" on your "crew list" is a REALLY bad idea. In normal terminology "passengers" have paid for passage and that makes you a commercial vessel subject to a really long list of rules and obligations that don't come into play otherwise.

I'd suggest you ruminate some more before doing this. There is no place where just listing someone as "crew" brings ANY obligations for extra insurance. Can you give an example???

[poiu]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

In all EU countries and Scandinavia you clear in as tourists , there is no Obligation that you leave via the yacht.

Same in Antigua , Barbados just required informing immigration the crew list was changing.

Same in the US , crew arrived , cleared in , three weeks later left to tour us and fly home , yacht left separately

As for “ crew “ arriving all of them flew in on tourist visas ( where applicable ) where no return flight was planned they just had a letter from me to say they intended to leave via a yacht ( which wasn’t there in one case when they flew in , and they had to change plans and fly to another island. Again no issues as they had or could acquire tourist visas etc

This is bad advice re Antigua.

You may have got away with it there, but they are sometimes ruthless with applying their rules and fines are ridiculous. Their rule is the captain is responsible for the crew, including financially unless they have been signed off at Immigration and for that they need to prove to the authorities they have cash to live until they leave and they also have a ticket out.

Check the rules for each country properly is the take-away. There is no one rule for all countries.

[goboatingnow]

In Antigua they did inform immigration

[poiu]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

In Antigua they did inform immigration

The rules are applied at the discretion of the customs officer and like I said, they got away with it, but the rules are how I described, not as you presumed them to be.

I also know someone who got into the US without a visa disembarking from a pleasure yacht. That’s another example of getting away with it. Very risky. Carry on like that without knowing the rules properly at your peril.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by poiu

The rules are applied at the discretion of the customs officer and like I said, they got away with it, but the rules are how I described, not as you presumed them to be.



I also know someone who got into the US without a visa disembarking from a pleasure yacht. That’s another example of getting away with it. Very risky. Carry on like that without knowing the rules properly at your peril.

I never suggested anything other then the crew must clear into the country correctly what I suggested is that once so called “ crew “ are correctly cleared in they have the status of “ tourists “. They must then abide by that status

That’s entirely different to commercial ships crew who have specific access to various forms of temporary and transit visas by the nature of their employment. These facilities are not under normal circumstances available to leisure crew who in reality are simply tourists

[poiu]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I never suggested anything other then the crew must clear into the country correctly what I suggested is that once so called “ crew “ are correctly cleared in they have the status of “ tourists “. They must then abide by that status

That’s entirely different to commercial ships crew who have specific access to various forms of temporary and transit visas by the nature of their employment. These facilities are not under normal circumstances available to leisure crew who in reality are simply tourists

Sorry for persisting, but this is bad advice. I know for certain in Antigua and in other places that this is not true and the captain and crew have to abide by special rules other than those for normal tourists.

[wholybee]

It varies by county, and it probably isn't wise to listen to internet advise that is given a broad rules.

Worth noting, many countries will not allow you to FLY into the country with out a return ticket. So in those countries, the rules as applied to a boat are consistent. You cannot enter the country without a return ticket. The boat can be that ticket, but you cannot be removed from the crew list without some other means to leave pre arranged first.

When I was in NZ, I flew back to the US for a few weeks. To return, I had to provide documents I obtained from immigration before leaving. The gate agent would not issue my boarding pass without them. Fortunately, I did my homework before leaving NZ so it was no problem.

In Fiji, I was not allowed to remove a crew member from my crew list or leave the country until he provided proof of a plane ticket to immigration. An email receipt was fine for this.

Bottom line, research your destination before departing for it or accepting crew.

[BillKny]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I never suggested anything other then the crew must clear into the country correctly what I suggested is that once so called “ crew “ are correctly cleared in they have the status of “ tourists “. They must then abide by that status

That’s entirely different to commercial ships crew who have specific access to various forms of temporary and transit visas by the nature of their employment. These facilities are not under normal circumstances available to leisure crew who in reality are simply tourists

Maybe you are not aware that "simple tourists" have obligations too. Before they enter almost all countries they must show that they have the means to travel on. Usually this means a paid, valid, outbound ticket. This is normally confirmed by the airline who is delivering you to the country before you are allowed to board the plane. If an airline brings someone to the island without a valid outbound ticket, the AIRLINE is responsible for removing them when they are denied entry.

What you seem to not understand is being included on the crew list of a yacht is proof that you have outbound travel already confirmed. When you, as the ship's master, sign off the crew list when you enter the island you are guaranteeing outbound passage for all aboard. You are most certainly NOT "a simple tourist," even if you might be on a tourist visa, no matter what you might think.

Many island nations are infamously flexible with their rules. I have certainly made mistakes that could have been very problematic, but the local officials have (so far!) always found a work-around that left everybody happy. But... feigning ignorance (or being actually ignorant) will only get you so far. At the very least it can make things very complicated

There are places that are more, and some that are less, careful about enforcement of these general guidelines.

[boatman61]

True.. and sometimes arriving with an 'outbound ticket' is not enough if you have no address for your stay as I found out when arriving in Sint Martin in 2000.. luckily the nice lady at the airport had a cousin with a room to let above his bar overlooking the Salt Pond in Phillipsburg..
I have also been stopped at Gatwick airport from boarding a flight to Miami, along with my crew because the owner of the boat we were delivering tried saving money by only suppling one way flights, ignoring what I had told him.. took three nights in a hotel before he could get an email to present to Homeland Security at Gatwick confirmed by a Miami police chief that we were flying in to take the boat out of the country.. a real PITA..

[PaulvR]

The captain is responsible for the crew list, which is attached to the vessels entry and exit. Some captains will hold all the passports to avoid anyone absconding, and also insist ahead of the voyage, who pays for the ticket home if incompatibilities arise.

As the skipper of the vessel, the crew are your responsibility. In some jurisdictions, and in all circumstances, this is not a small matter. So have it all laid out in writing and ready to execute prior to departure, if the need arises,....this is my advice..