Feds Seek Info on Manatee Crime

[wsmurdoch]

I was born February 5. 1951. The USA population was 154 million and the world population was 2.59 billion. I am now 70. The USA human population is now 334 million and the world population is 7.00 billion.

I played with my brothers among the sand dune on Cherry Grove Beach in South Carolina and hunted squirrels with my friends with a 22 rifle without any notice of property boundaries in the woods of piedmont North Carolina.

My grandchildren, if they were to go to what is now North Myrtle Beach, would find a five story condominium on the property where my grandmother's 24' x 24' house stood and not a single sand dune. They would find housing subdivisions and "Posted, No Trespassing" signs where my friends and I used to hunt squirrels.

There are more of us; there will be fewer manatees. We are to blame.

As Pogo said in '71, "We have met the enemy, and he is us."

We are the root cause.



Bill

[JPA Cate]

Someone above wrote that feeding programs are of no use to endangered species. I would question that statement, and here's why.

About 25 yrs. or so ago, Jim and I went to where some local people had feeding stations for the orange bellied parrot, who migrates for summer to Southern Tasmania. These birds migrate to Tassie for the summer. At the lowest time, their population had fallen to a population of 7. In their case, it has been a captive breeding program, with very fancy feeding that is beginning to replace their numbers.

Here's a link to a story about it. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-...sing/100715366

It certainly doesn't directly help the manatee situation, but a combined program of supplemental feeding (if appropriate greens can be found in sufficient quantity to help), and addressing the complicated issues represented by the water quality, could probably help without harming. Unfortunately, I don't think sausage and mushroom or ham and pineapple pizza is really their thing, in real life.

Ann

[Jim Cate]

A manatee can consume from 5 to 15 percent of its body weight in aquatic vegetation daily.

Since these beasts weigh in at ~1000 lbs according to an earlier post, the above statistic means they consume somethin like 100 lbs of sea grass etc every day... and somehow this is regarded as natural and a good part of aquatic resource usage. (Not that I disagree with this!).

Pity the poor yottie whose anchor tears up a couple of square meters of said grassy lawn... off with his head!

Jim

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Since these beasts weigh in at ~1000 lbs according to an earlier post, the above statistic means they consume somethin like 100 lbs of sea grass etc every day... and somehow this is regarded as natural and a good part of aquatic resource usage. (Not that I disagree with this!)...
Jim

Indeed.

The Eating Habits of Herbivorous Manatees

Manatees eat an average of 100-200 pounds of sea grasses and weeds each day. They large herbivores graze on the grasses and weeds for up to seven hours each day, ultimately consuming about 10 – 15% of their body weight.

Freshwater plants include hyacinth, pickerelweed, alligator weed, water lettuce, hydrilla, water celery, and musk grass. Saltwater plants include sea grasses, shoal grass, manatee grass, turtle grass, widgeon grass, sea clover, and marine algae.

➥ https://www.see-manatees.com/2017/09...bits-manatees/

According to the Save the Manatee Club: “Manatees can eat 10 - 15% of their body weight in vegetation daily. A 453-kilogram (1,000-pound) manatee, for example, would probably eat between 45-68 kilograms (100 - 150 pounds) of food a day.”
➥ Manatee FAQ: Food

According to Sea World: “Manatees consume about 4% to 9% (15 to 49 kg or 32-108 lb. for an average adult manatee) of their body weight in wet vegetation daily."
Would that be in captivity?
➥ https://seaworld.org/animals/all-about/manatees/diet/

[GordMay]

Record number of Florida manatees died in 2021

A record number of manatees died in Florida last year, according to a report [1] released by Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission this week. From January 1 to December 31, 2021, preliminary data shows that there were 1,101 reported manatee deaths in the state — nearly double the five-year average — with most dying of starvation.
In 2020, there were 637 reported manatee deaths, and there were 607 in 2019. The five-year mortality average is 625, according to the state.

[1] ➥ https://myfwc.com/media/25428/preliminary.pdf

[JC Reefer]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Since these beasts weigh in at ~1000 lbs according to an earlier post, the above statistic means they consume somethin like 100 lbs of sea grass etc every day... and somehow this is regarded as natural and a good part of aquatic resource usage. (Not that I disagree with this!).



Pity the poor yottie whose anchor tears up a couple of square meters of said grassy lawn... off with his head!



Jim

Scientists studying Desertification of lands once thought that the removal of large grazing mammals would help the land grow back.

All Elephants in a large area were killed in this belief, is was something like 800 animals. Turns out that the grasslands needed some turning over and without the free roaming eaters, desertification was even worse. Once elephants were introduced the area came back to life.

All that to say, yes the eat a lot of grass, but they have been around doing what they do a lot long then boat anchors.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by JC Reefer

Scientists studying Desertification of lands once thought that the removal of large grazing mammals would help the land grow back.

All Elephants in a large area were killed in this belief, is was something like 800 animals. Turns out that the grasslands needed some turning over and without the free roaming eaters, desertification was even worse. Once elephants were introduced the area came back to life.

All that to say, yes the eat a lot of grass, but they have been around doing what they do a lot long then boat anchors.

Alan Savory is credited with developing the “Holistic Management Framework” [Holistic Planned Grazing], back in the 1960s, and has been leading anti-desertification efforts in Africa, for decades now, using a rather unorthodox approach, of increasing the number of livestock on grasslands, rather than fencing them off for conservation.
➥ https://www.downtoearth.org.in/blog/...he-dogma-66511

[endlesspursuit]

Yes they are starving and its a man made problem. Here in Brevard county they put locks at the port but for decades have fought over a new inlet. The river is so stagnant and polluted that we have had a massive sea grass die off. Without proper flow the water clarity will never recover enough to allow the seagrass to grow as it should. A classic case of the environmentalist causing more harm than good. IMHO.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by endlesspursuit

Yes they are starving and its a man made problem. Here in Brevard county they put locks at the port but for decades have fought over a new inlet. The river is so stagnant and polluted that we have had a massive sea grass die off. Without proper flow the water clarity will never recover enough to allow the seagrass to grow as it should. A classic case of the environmentalist causing more harm than good. IMHO.

So, you are blaming 'environmentalists' for the installation of locks? Possible, but sounds a little suspect to me. Most of the time, the environmentalists want removal of locks and dams. Can you please give us some details about the purposes of these locks and the history of their installation?
And also, your post blames a single factor (water flow) for this problem. That is rarely the case, even if it is appealing for simpletons.
And let's just skip over the baseless, right wing harangue of environmentalists doing more harm than good. Pathetic.

[endlesspursuit]

Originally Posted by lestersails

So, you are blaming 'environmentalists' for the installation of locks? Possible, but sounds a little suspect to me. Most of the time, the environmentalists want removal of locks and dams. Can you please give us some details about the purposes of these locks and the history of their installation?
And also, your post blames a single factor (water flow) for this problem. That is rarely the case, even if it is appealing for simpletons.
And let's just skip over the baseless, right wing harangue of environmentalists doing more harm than good. Pathetic.

Nope, The environmentalists are against the new inlet. They claim it will adversely effect the water salinity. At this point I think that is second to keeping the river from dyeing altogether. Right now the inlets are about 80 miles apart. The cape installed the locks for the port. (half way ). With 60 years here in Florida I have seen a lot and water flow defiantly effects the clarity of the water, along with run off. I am not alone in this thought. This has been an ongoing issue for years. So before you claim it baseless I would suggest doing a little research fist. Environmentalists have done a lot of good here in Florida but not here. And as far as your right wing comment, that makes you Pathetic.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by endlesspursuit

Nope, The environmentalists are against the new inlet. They claim it will adversely effect the water salinity. At this point I think that is second to keeping the river from dyeing altogether. Right now the inlets are about 80 miles apart. The cape installed the locks for the port. (half way ). With 60 years here in Florida I have seen a lot and water flow defiantly effects the clarity of the water, along with run off. I am not alone in this thought. This has been an ongoing issue for years. So before you claim it baseless I would suggest doing a little research fist. Environmentalists have done a lot of good here in Florida but not here. And as far as your right wing comment, that makes you Pathetic.

This is a real pattern on CF. Someone1 makes a baseless assertion, someone2 calls them on it and asks for evidence, and someone1 tells someone2 "go do the research". I am not sure if this is more childish or deranged.
People like this don't understand the first thing about how to have a rational conversation or mount an argument. It is really tiresome and I won't descend to this level of inanity.

[jeanathon]

Originally Posted by lestersails

And let's just skip over the baseless, right wing harangue of environmentalists doing more harm than good. Pathetic.

Politic much?

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by jeanathon

Politic much?

You are referring to endless pursuit, methinks. S/he is the one who is injecting politics into this. You would have to be a pretty dim bulb to not recognize that smearing environmentalists is a classic, right wing political trope.
I just call a spade a spade.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by endlesspursuit

... Here in Brevard county they put locks at the port but for decades have fought over a new inlet. A classic case of the environmentalist causing scientists recognizing that it COULD cause more harm than good.

The issues, surrounding the proposed Brevard County Indian River Lagoon Inlet, might be just a little more complex, than you suggest.
Florida has experience, with well-intentioned plumbing projects, that went wrong, producing unintended consequences.
Perhaps, a little prudent caution, at this time, might be advised, while also contemplating addressing the root cause[s] of the current problem.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by GordMay

The issues, surrounding the proposed Brevard County Indian River Lagoon Inlet, might be just a little more complex, than you suggest.
Florida has experience, with well-intentioned plumbing projects, that went wrong, producing unintended consequences.
Perhaps, a little prudent caution, at this time, might be advised, while also contemplating addressing the root cause[s] of the current problem.

Thanks, Gord, a thoughtful post (as usual!) A great example of the old saying "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, clear, and wrong."
Environmentalists are neither saints nor omniscient and environmental laws are not always ideal or optimal. Implementation of environmental laws sometimes go overboard. But taking a US-centric view, it is worthwhile to look back over the decades since the EPA was created (by a Republican President, one should note) and recognize that
1) Air pollution has been massively improved primarily by automobile pollution controls (I lived in So Cal in the 70's - it was horrific and now it is not that bad at all)
2) Waterway pollution is massively improved - lest we forget, the Cuyahoga River caught fire multiple times - most infamously in 1969. Fifty years and a lot of hard work - now you can eat the fish from it.
3) Raptors were rescued from the brink of extinction by banning DDT.
4) The ozone depletion was reversed by banning certain CFCs
I could go on. The bottom line is that environmental laws and regs have been enormously beneficial for quality of life and health. If you want a comparison or a time machine - just go to any large city in China. The air and water quality is awful.

A rational and intelligent debate should always happen re the costs and benefits of environmental rules. We will never have air and water that is as clean as it was at the dawn of human history. It is unaffordable. Nor can we have industry writing the regs - they will always sacrifice our environmental quality for their profits (socialize costs, privatize profits). These cost-benefit analyses are really difficult and not benefitted at all by childish, politically motivated smears of environmentalists or environmental policies.

It is human nature to destroy shared resources for personal gain (tragedy of the commons). Environmentalists, conservationist (like Teddy Roosevelt, another Republican), etc. are essential to push back against this unfortunate human trait. Environmentalists and conservationists are not always right, but thank goodness we have them.

"While I am a great believer in the free enterprise system and all that it entails," he once wrote, "I am an even stronger believer in the right of our people to live in a clean and pollution-free environment."
Barry Goldwater