California communities suing for polluters to pay for storm damage

[Cottontop]

Originally Posted by SecondBase

Cali is down to 5.5 cents a kilowatt for commercial solar. Game over.

The retail price for a kwh in Texas, where production is a competitve market, is 3-4 cents. The production cost is, of course, a fraction of that.

Solar is not yet cost-competitive, or even close, without government intervention.

[a64pilot]

I don't believe 5.5C per KWH for Solar. I don't believe that number is even close, someone is playing with the numbers, not counting purchase costs, or Including Government subsidies, tax breaks or something.
At even close to 5C, we should see Solar on every roof

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I don't believe 5.5C per KWH for Solar. I don't believe that number is even close, someone is playing with the numbers, not counting purchase costs, or Including Government subsidies, tax breaks or something.
At even close to 5C, we should see Solar on every roof

I don't either nor does Google it is more like $.26 ( rounded up)
Calif. Power Rates Go Up 80 Percent - ABC News
Residential ratepayers are divided into five tiers, and those in PG&E's top tier — about 9 percent of that utility's residential customers — will see electric rates jump from 14.3 cents to 25.8 cents per kilowatt hour. That's an 80 percent increase

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I don't believe 5.5C per KWH for Solar. I don't believe that number is even close, someone is playing with the numbers, not counting purchase costs, or Including Government subsidies, tax breaks or something.
At even close to 5C, we should see Solar on every roof

Perhaps that is what the power companies are buying it for and selling at $.26 which sounds like a great deal for the company stockholders.

[SecondBase]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I don't believe 5.5C per KWH for Solar. I don't believe that number is even close, someone is playing with the numbers, not counting purchase costs, or Including Government subsidies, tax breaks or something.

At even close to 5C, we should see Solar on every roof

Appreciate the several comments here. Let me reply off of a64's.

---

I'm taking that number from the LA Times on faith for right now. I get where posters are coming from in that there is a certain amount of Rabies within solar support but it'd be impossible for them to publish that incorrectly and not issue a retraction. IDK if they have issued a retraction. If LA Times has then I stand corrected.

Agree 5C would definitely be every rooftop.

They may only get to that fine 5C price at sites like the 9 million panel site they mentioned in the article (commercial volume).

I'm open-minded if the article proves wrong but you (EDIT: We) need either a direct retraction or a source equal in truthiness to the LA Times to refute what's being said. If we can't find that then we can't just PET THE UNICORN and wish away the pricing report.

Can someone offer a comparison study article for Cali commercial solar price point? Needs to be apples-to-apples so a 2017 article please !!

Solar pricing per kW is moving in exactly one direction year after year. This cost likely excludes storage and distribution. Like a64 said if tax breaks are baked in that is real money and need to be listed. If it is 5C for commercial today IMO it will be 5C for residential by 2019-2020.

Can anyone actually further support, or refute, Ivan Penn's article with some peer review?

[a64pilot]

I think the issue with cost estimates is you can so easily skew the results.
For instance, panel life? If you say they last 40 years and amortize the cost over 40 years that is going to have a large impact on costs.

[SecondBase]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I think the issue with cost estimates is you can so easily skew the results.
For instance, panel life? If you say they last 40 years and amortize the cost over 40 years that is going to have a large impact on costs.

Yup. We need the underlying assumptions. Those should be laid out in the sunlight for review. If the service life is assumed higher than the average warranty period we have a gap to price back in.

[sailorchic34]

Cali residential rates are currently 20 cents/kw for base, which then jumps to 27.6 cents/kw for up to 400 percent of base. Above that it's 40 cents a kw. Residential solar works by allowing folks to never get above the base rate. Base rate generally accounts for 25%-33% of an average homes power bill.

LOTS O solar on homes in California.

[newhaul]

What we need is to see the actual numbers and formula that was used to come up with that .05 per kWh.

[David M]

If US media sources are told that they now have to be balanced then who ends up deciding what is balanced? How do you get a truly balanced committee to decide this? The answer is that it would not be possible because different people have different ideas on what would be balanced. It would depend mostly on ones political perspective.

[Olddan1943]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Lawsuits filed in July by three coastal California communities against ExxonMobil, Chevron, BP and other large fossil fuel companies argue that the companies, not taxpayers and residents, should bear the cost of damages from rising seas. From the Guardian.

California is a world unto itself.
In California I suspect if you sneezed someone would sue you for spreading germs.
They are busy trying to figure out how to tax the farmers for cow farts.
They tried to fine or tax bakers for CO2 emissions. Results, major bakeries moved out of state. Folks now can only get two day-old bread.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

We need ideally $10 a gallon fuel to make any real kind of shift, in my opinion.

Yep....which is what one Political Party and the EchoHesbola movement has been pushing for!

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

Cali residential rates are currently 20 cents/kw for base, which then jumps to 27.6 cents/kw for up to 400 percent of base. Above that it's 40 cents a kw. Residential solar works by allowing folks to never get above the base rate. Base rate generally accounts for 25%-33% of an average homes power bill.

LOTS O solar on homes in California.

Exactly....and again just like the Goal of $10/Gal gas....it only works if you punish people and force them into something. The California KW Rates are artificial and bogus made to push a social agenda, not market based supply and demand.

[David M]

There are micro bakeries still in the state. But yeah, the big ones moved out.

I remember the wonderful smell Kilpatrick's and then Bimbo bread as I drove along 880 through Oakland.

I would imagine the wonderful smell of the coffee roasters are next on the hit list.

Ultimately businesses do have the choice of moving out, taking their jobs with them. The government cannot stop that.

[SecondBase]

Originally Posted by David M

If US media sources are told that they now have to be balanced then who ends up deciding what is balanced? How do you get a truly balanced committee to decide this? The answer is that it would not be possible because different people have different ideas on what would be balanced. It would depend mostly on ones political perspective.

If you're going to enjoy 4th estate protections you should be required to publish the party membership of your newsroom staff. To include a binary quiz on the top 10 issues of the day with published results. Put those together and you have your newsroom's L-R Score.

If we won't quite get there then a free market mix of known biased liberal and conservative networks is probably the next best path to hearing both sides.

CNN sorta tries to get center but they have a years long road to balance. Step one is getting out of NY and opening a parallel newsroom in either Birmingham, AL or Fargo, ND with forced staff rotations and 50% of the show hosting. Live it and you can hope to report on it.