Being more positive on CF

[David M]

I don't see negativity when one informs another of what the reality of a situation might be in their experience...even if it is not the best of news. We help each other sometimes by stating what one thinks is the reality of a situation, and that might have already ended up saving a life or two.

I see real negativity when people attack or insult one another. I have seen a bit too much of that here. Or arrogance or braggadociousness (not a word?) when it might have been better to be humble.

[weavis]

Sadly, being humble is now a lost skill.

[cyan]

Pardon the interruption, but it sure sounds like a whole bunch of people are a little too self-congratulatory about how wonderfully negative they are and how awesomely helpful that is. (and yes, I see the irony with that statement)
It might feel righteous to save a clueless newbie dreamer from venturing past the horizon without a clew. Fair enough.
However, there is often an in-the-club vs not-in-the-club attitude on display when it comes to repeated questions. When the "experts" load up the snark guns for a cliche anchor question or a which-boat-to-buy post, the newbie hazing starts.
There is indeed a lot of unneccesary negativity in those cases. Those who do it may lack a little self awareness, like the teacher unaware of the student perspective. At times it seems as if the contributers on one rigging thread are insulted when someine starts a new rigging thread. Get over it. It's a sailing forum. A great one with a ton of useful information that is sometimes spread across hard-to-find locations. I think Mike O has it right- Just move on if you don't wish to help.
(Sorry for the negativity.)

[boatman61]

Having been subjected to negativity by so called 'experts', in my case PBO (Practical Boat Owner) when I made my first Channel crossing to Cherbourg and Alderney.
I started out as a bit of a purist, its a sailboat so an engine is not really needed therefore I had bought a timber boat with no engine and strapped a small outboard on the back for entering marinas with favourable tides (3kt was available at max revs)
So anyway, this vaunted sailing rag which I used to be subscribed to had been asking for stories in an attempt to make it more than just pages of adverts so I sent in my account of my adventure, admittedly proud of my achievement after two seasons of sailing my boat extensively in strong tidal waters between Keyhaven and Salcombe working with wind and tide on S coast of UK.
It was rejected and sent back with a page of admonitions about being reckless, a danger to myself and shipping and putting my then gf's life in danger.
Since then I have never bought another rag nor heeded anyone who has said it cannot be done..
What they really mean is its not how they can/would do it so.. it cant be safe.
I say go for it, it can be done, I've done it and I am no genius.. however success will depend on common sense, a healthy dose of self preservation and knowing ones limits and less on how many toys one brings to the playground.
Newbies get hammered when they have mishaps yet some dickhead abandons his Swan because he cannot maintain his boat or navigate without his Ipad gets defended because he races boats so must be gods gift.. hypocriscy rocks.
Theres a lot more to it than just knowing how to trim a sail.. just another newbie who dodged the 'Darwin Award'
Like walking, you need to collide with a table to learn to avoid it, some collide with the table often before they get it..

[daletournier]

In a world full of self help books and Anthony Robbins types ,the word negativity is to easily thrown around, why is negative a bad thing?

If having a opinion based on experience doesn't agree with what someone else wants to believe is labelled negative why is this a bad thing? Maybe being naively positive, or replying positively due to 'you should" is the bad thing? The truth isnt always positive and the telling of it shouldn't be punished. If we punish the truth by labeling someone negative then those people will just choose to drop out of the conversation, then we lose that person's perspective/wisdom.

Rudeness is different, the way you present your "negative " view matters. Rudeness is a problem at times here, and I'm guilty of this at times due to a lacking in tolerance.

Personally I see alot of undeserved positivity in this world (western world), a world that's allowed many to get by without the lessons of resilience, humbleness, hard work etc, often I see this naive positivity as dangerous. Seeing things for the way they are without adding the labels of positive or negative imho is the better way to navigate through life and that includes cruising.

Negativity has a place.

[Lake-Effect]

Positive/negative is maybe the wrong discussion. Accurate and useful information can be either, and withholding or sugar-coating the truth is seldom beneficial.

The better discussion for CF is civility/hostility. One can impart 'negative' information without being hostile. (I speak as a known violator )

boatman - re your PBO story, publications and even public fora have a "duty of care" to not promote or endorse behaviour that is unsafe or risky. Your channel crossing is certainly an adventure and an achievement (and a great bar or fireside story) but is it something that a widely circulated publication should be tacitly endorsing to beginners?

[Mike OReilly]

I don’t feel it’s my role to be positive, or negative, when responding to a question of fact. If I have information that is pertinent, then I try and provide it. Sometimes the information does not support the poster’s expectation, but I try and do this without being nasty. As LE just said, “one can impart 'negative' information without being hostile.”

As I mentioned earlier, I tend not to get involved with obvious newbies who clearly have no clue. If someone starts with “I’ve never sailed, but now I want to sell everything and travel around the world in my own little boat,” then I usually just move on. Clearly they have so much to learn, and likely have a lot more unstated issues going on. I figure there’s little I can say or do that is of any use. Reality will intervene.

But that’s the wonderful thing about forums. If you’re not interested in a topic, or have nothing useful to say, then just move on. No one forces anyone to read anything (except for you mods — I feel for you folks ).

[boatman61]

LE.. In that case dont ask people to contribute their stories.. mine, apart from the tide stalling me for nearly 5hrs at the head of the Alderney Race was pretty safe on my 24ft bilge keeler, maybe my comment on how the 30ft> boats were bashing on through with full sail and motor had something to do with it.. Who knows.
But all in all it was an account of a generally successful crossing, not unlike many their 'qualified regular authors' were writing about in every issue.
Maybe I should have invented a crisis and sent to the 'Confessional' at Yachting Monthly..

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

If you had wandered into a board meeting at IBM a few decades ago and said that a couple of kids in Palo Alto had just wandered into a Radio Shack store, bought a bag of electronic bits and are going to start a computer company whch will far exceed the commercial extent and influence of the mighty IBM they would have called security.

The problem is that newbies are such untrustworthy beggars in that they can't always be trusted to fail in their dreams. The character that states an intention of buying a big old derelict and making an unlikely voyage in it to start a restaurant might just pull off a Gates and Wozniak and end up the Conrad Hilton of the floating restaurant business.

Should we encourage them? Of course we should, the future enhancement of the gene pool demands it.

Sounds like all those kids my Wife used to teach who thought the only purpose of school was to spring board them to that Professional Sports career.
Over the years, not a single one made it, but the neighborhoods got a lot of new drug dealers because they had no education and no marketable skill.

Sure encourage them, but be realistic about it, because they need a back up plan for when the dream dies.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Sounds like all those kids my Wife used to teach who thought the only purpose of school was to spring board them to that Professional Sports career.
Over the years, not a single one made it, but the neighborhoods got a lot of new drug dealers because they had no education and no marketable skill.

Sure encourage them, but be realistic about it, because they need a back up plan for when the dream dies.

I think you do a disservice to all the kids who did not become drug dealers..
I wuz expelded frum skool age 14 n a halve but eye did not deal drugz.. for sum uv us regulted edicshun dont werk we is more handz on peepul.
However despite my loser background I have not done to badly.. I have self educated on what interests me not what I was told I will learn, not everyone is a conformist.
Sure I am no Richard Branson but hey.. who needs all that stress.

[transmitterdan]

It seems that many more people today can not distinguish what is a personal attack. They have been conditioned that whatever wrong fact they hold true is just as valuable as the actual true fact they don’t believe. And they equate a statement of fact counter to their belief as a personal attack. You cannot have a conversation with that backdrop. I fear this is the natural outcome of the “safe space syndrome” invading our culture.

[ttex]

I think I quite like you, boatman61.

Cheers from Texas!

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by transmitterdan

It seems that many more people today can not distinguish what is a personal attack. They have been conditioned that whatever wrong fact they hold true is just as valuable as the actual true fact they don’t believe. And they equate a statement of fact counter to their belief as a personal attack. You cannot have a conversation with that backdrop. I fear this is the natural outcome of the “safe space syndrome” invading our culture.

Hey.. I'm not seeing it as a personal attack just stating that not everyone fits into preconcieved stereotypes..
If I sterotyped everyone I'd not be posting on here..
To many lost causes..
I could have BS'ed about my edeficashun and claimed all sorts of degrees and non the wiser but.. just stating education or lack of does not a drug dealer make.
Read Mr Nice..
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Marks

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by boatman61

I think you do a disservice to all the kids who did not become drug dealers..

I wuz expelded frum skool age 14 n a halve but eye did not deal drugz.. for sum uv us regulted edicshun dont werk we is more handz on peepul.

However despite my loser background I have not done to badly.. I have self educated on what interests me not what I was told I will learn, not everyone is a conformist.

Sure I am no Richard Branson but hey.. who needs all that stress.

I was a high school drop out as well, but I did go back and finish, after an accident left me in the hospital for a month or two and the recovery.
My now Wife took off with me when she was still in school, so she never finished, she got her GED and of course her degree first as a Nurse, then later as a teacher.

Neither of us were drug dealers either, but we didn’t live the fantasy of being Professional Sports stars or Move Stars or any other fantasy, we knew exactly what was ahead of us. I started out as a contract welder in the oilfield and then the oilfield fell apart and I joined the Army as a Private so we could eat.

Encouraging someone in something that that have less than a one in a million chance of pulling off isn’t doing them a favor, especially if they put all their hopes and plans into that fantasy.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I was a high school drop out as well, but I did go back and finish, after an accident left me in the hospital for a month or two and the recovery.
My now Wife took off with me when she was still in school, so she never finished, she got her GED and of course her degree first as a Nurse, then later as a teacher.

Neither of us were drug dealers either, but we didn’t live the fantasy of being Professional Sports stars or Move Stars or any other fantasy, we knew exactly what was ahead of us. I started out as a contract welder in the oilfield and then the oilfield fell apart and I joined the Army as a Private so we could eat.

Encouraging someone in something that that have less than a one in a million chance of pulling off isn’t doing them a favor, especially if they put all their hopes and plans into that fantasy.

Thats what happens though when education is commercialized.. Trophies and the Sponerships/$$$ they bring become the prime directive, not intellectual progression of the students overall.
This is often evidenced in the many Q&A videos with college students.on Youtube.
If its not.on Facebook or the Kardashians its not worth knowing..