Being more positive on CF

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Haven't followed this thread, just had a quick look now.

Got to say, I'm impressed with all the positivity.

[RaymondR]

In a bold attempt to get the thread back on topic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuBWX-4tOik

Not for those of a sheltered upbringing.

[El Pinguino]

Well done that man

[Sojourner]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Yes, that is indeed one of the considerations when setting road speed limits. But there are many others, including the physical engineering parameters, weather and climate, volumes, and policy intent, just to name a few. That is why a posted speed limit is not something to be taken as mere suggestion.



Indeed, moving too slow can be a hazard on controlled waters as well as controlled roads. This is why all jurisdictions I know of actually have infractions for moving too slow in highways.

Just as the colregs define expected behaviour, so too to do posted speed limits. A speed limit is exactly that; the maximum one can drive on this roadway. It is not a mandatory speed, it is a maximum. Most roadways are governed by minimums as well, and some jurisdictions even post these. The ones I’m aware of include a lower range that is 40% below the MAX. The specific examples we’ve discussed considers someone driving 10 to 15% below, which is well within the normal operating range. So in your example it would be someone sailing at 5.4 to 5.1 knots, not 2 knots. Yet this is what has got some people all bent out of shape.



No one has said anything of the sort. What they have said is that just b/c you put yourself in this late situation, doesn’t mean the rest of the world has to accommodate your choices. Unless you’re having a baby or a heart attack, you still don’t have the right to drive aggressively or beyond the posted speed limit. And someone driving 10 to 15% lower than the maximum is not an excuse to get angry.

I'm angry because the gist of his post was that he does it to teach others a lesson. Not hypermiling, not cause his car is slow (like my VW), but expressly to teach other taxpaying adults something which is neither always true nor appropriate while said adults are obeying the traffic laws. How anyone thinks that's decent behavior is beyond me. On the water, if a stranger was trying to physically block you from piloting your boat in a safe and legal manner just for yucks, we'd all call it what it is: UNSEAMANLIKE.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Sojourner

I'm angry because the gist of his post was that he does it to teach others a lesson. Not hypermiling, not cause his car is slow (like my VW), but expressly to teach other taxpaying adults something which is neither always true nor appropriate while said adults are obeying the traffic laws. How anyone thinks that's decent behavior is beyond me. On the water, if a stranger was trying to physically block you from piloting your boat in a safe and legal manner just for yucks, we'd all call it what it is: UNSEAMANLIKE.

It’s hard to tell the reason for a slower-moving car, or indeed a vessel. Could be mechanical limitations, could be the driver’s moving as fast as (s)he feels is safe, or could be they are a dyck. The point is, whatever the reason, 10-15% slower is not cause for getting all bent out of shape.

Take a deep breathe, slow down, and when it’s safe to pass, do so. No biggie.

[barnakiel]

But cops and the cetera are not required.


In one EU country (no no names please), if you drive in any threatening way or if you open the window and call the other driver a mother****er idiot all it takes is a dashboard camera footage and the offensive individual ends up being a driver for a good while. Pretty effective and driving there I was not offended ever, not ONCE.



One should not be punished for negativity though. Some people have a darker outlook (like me), others see the world thru pink spectacles. It is all neatly balanced. Or should we punish the happy one for their happiness too?



Negativity is not aggression. Negativity is just where someone falls on the broad and much desired spectrum of humanity.


Let the negative guy be negative while you stick to your own constitution.


For we can only grow when we hear critical things, differing opinions and alternative views.


Where and when everybody is very NICE then that's that - no progress, no development and no growth are granted.


Avoid aggression that's sure but avoid playing to somebody else's tune that's twice as sure.


Cheers,
barnakiel

[Lake-Effect]

Paraphrasing barnakiel:

https://mwkworks.com/desiderata.html

[a64pilot]

Now it was the last Century when I lived there, but it was my understanding that among the most severe traffic citations you could get in Germany was one for being rude, which I was told consisted of flashing your high beams to get someone to move, blowing your horn, giving the finger etc.
you know, normal NY driving.
Also it was I believe forbidden to not clear the left lane to allow someone to pass unimpeded, if you had to speed up, then you sped up, but you got out of their way.
It was your duty to not get in others way as I understood it.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Paraphrasing barnakiel:

https://mwkworks.com/desiderata.html

(although I’m not always a good practitioner ).

You can really get a citation for being rude in Germany? I thought it was us Canadians that were suppose to be the polite ones .

Completel agree Barn, negativity is not aggression. Someone can be as negative, and grumpy or as angry as they feel they need to be. Just don’t take it out on others (that’s when it becomes aggression).

[a64pilot]

Apparently you can still get into serious trouble for doing that ,I have a story or two about a dumb GI who thought he could show his behind like he can in the States and what happens if you do in Germany. In my opinion, it’s simply a more civilized society than the US is.
https://europe.stripes.com/pcs/traff...-fines-germany
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/germa...ures_n_3277444

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by Sojourner

I'm angry because the gist of his post was that he does it to teach others a lesson.

Who does? Must have missed that.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

lIn my opinion, it’s simply a more civilized society than the US is.

Like saying the sky is blue. Which of the top 20 developed nations isn't?

Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Ireland, maybe even the UK?

Norway, Iceland, Denmark, Sweden
Finland, Luxembourg, Belgium, Netherlands

Germany, Switzerland, Austria, France, even Spain & Italy

Japan, South Korea, Singapore. . .

The “Gross National Happiness” concept pioneered by the King of Bhutan has been gaining ground,

with gross inequality GDP per capita is getting further and further away from measuring a country's well being.

Cf. OECD Better Life Initiative http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org, and New Zealand's recent efforts

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Now it was the last Century when I lived there, but it was my understanding that among the most severe traffic citations you could get in Germany was one for being rude, which I was told consisted of flashing your high beams to get someone to move, blowing your horn, giving the finger etc.
you know, normal NY driving.
Also it was I believe forbidden to not clear the left lane to allow someone to pass unimpeded, if you had to speed up, then you sped up, but you got out of their way.
It was your duty to not get in others way as I understood it.

When I drove in Europe it was standard practice on autobahns and motorways for faster cars to flash their high beams to ask you to clear the fast lane. They'd do this from a good couple of km back to give you plenty of time.

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by Sojourner

I'm angry because the gist of his post was that he does it to teach others a lesson. Not hypermiling, not cause his car is slow (like my VW), but expressly to teach other taxpaying adults something which is neither always true nor appropriate while said adults are obeying the traffic laws. How anyone thinks that's decent behavior is beyond me. On the water, if a stranger was trying to physically block you from piloting your boat in a safe and legal manner just for yucks, we'd all call it what it is: UNSEAMANLIKE.

I don't do it to "teach others a lesson", that's the job of the authorities with their speeding fines and license point penalty systems. I do it because I have 75 years of experience acquired judgement and wisdom behind me.

There is a large portion of the motoring public who cannot stand to travel behind another vehicle and will pass even if they have to substantially exceed the speed limit and a significant portion of maniacs who will do so no matter the road conditions. If I travel at the limit they will accelerate to dangerous speeds to pass and sometimes remain barely in control of the vehicle. In addition if I have to brake and bail out because one of the maniacs comes around a corner travelling well beyond the limit whilst they overtake I want to be able to do so as slowly as possible. If they lose control and cause a wreck I want to be able to stop rather than adding to the victims.

During the energy crisis of the early seventies many U.S. traffic authorities reduced the highway speed limit to 50mph. The traffic fatality incidence reduced so substantially that they considered keeping it there however it proved politically impossible to do so.

The point of the mini narrative was to introduce a little humor into the discussion and in addition to point out that grandma makes the best cookies because she has been making them for fifty years and honing the recipe and grandpa drives slowly because he has learned to avoid the disasters and near disasters that speed brings.

If you take to cruising the Queensland coast and come up behind an old dude in an IP40 who is dawdling along in 30 knots of breeze reefed down to 5 knots instead of thrashing along over ragged with everything under enormous strain and risking a broach at every wave to get to the next anchorage at 1530 instead of 1600 the old dude is more than likely me - apparently a menace to both seagoing and highway going society.

So be it mate, "The moving finger writes and having writ moves on, and all your piety and wit won't move it back to cancel half a line, nor all your tears wash out a word of it". And I'm going to continue to travel on the highway in my cautious way and reef down in 30 knots.

RaymondR

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

Haven't followed this thread, just had a quick look now.

Got to say, I'm impressed with all the positivity.

Yeah, each of us is positive of being RIGHT!