Need a GREAT Insurance Broker

[Tspringer]

I am trying to buy a boat and in order to do so I will need insurance on the boat. I am financing and thus no insurance is not an option.

The boat has been surveyed and the survey turned up many issues - mostly deferred maintenance stuff but also a need for a complete new standing rig and some other larger repairs. Insurance refused to bind coverage on the boat due to all of the issues.

The seller and I have been negotiating all of this. We are to the point where the seller is willing to pay to have EVERYTHING noted on the survey - both "essential recommendations" and "general recommendations" repaired before closing and we have agreed to a price.

However - before the seller is willing to go forward with this, he wants assurances that once everything has been repaired I will in fact be able to obtain insurance on the boat. That sounds pretty reasonable to me and I also want this assurance before chasing this boat for another month or more.

I have provided the complete survey and a very detailed recommendations compliance letter noting that everything will be corrected prior to vessel acceptance and closing. This also notes that prior to insurance becoming effective, we will provide both paid invoices for all work completed AND the surveyor will re-attend the vessel to ensure everything has been corrected. I have sent this to both insurance brokers I have been working with along with a request for a letter or other underwriting response to indicate that coverage will be extended when all survey recommendations have been completed.

That would seem to be a fairly simple request. But I cannot get a response. Emails are ignored - calls are not returned - and promises are not kept. Basically, I feel like they just don't want to be bothered with it. At this point, I am sick of it. If their customer "no-service" is so bad up front, how bad will it be if there is ever a claim?

So at this point I want to try and get what I need with another insurance broker who actually will work on it including responding to emails and calls and pushing the carrier to actually do something to help.

Any suggestions or recommendations for a great marine insurance broker is greatly appreciated.


Terry

[rbk]

Where?

[two-rocks]

The seller will do things as cheap as possible, having already deferred doing so in the first place. Adjust the price and have it done on your own or by you. Or agree that you will manage the necessary items, he pays, you buy. Get it in writing.

[S/V Illusion]

No broker has the authority to guarantee prospectively any underwriter’s determination of insurability. Any one who tells you otherwise is wrong.

Although I understand your desire here, that’s not how it works.

Rather, you need to find an underwriter who will insure the boat as-is with the stipulation coverage doesnt apply until repairs are completed to their satisfaction. Some underwriters will do that while others won’t. But in no case can a broker guarantee what they say or do.

It’s your move first, not theirs.

[Empty Pockets]

I don’t know where you are, but if FL works, call Casey Heer at Casey Insurance Group 888-537-1412. They’ve always been more than helpful for me.
Pete

[john61ct]

Insurance is pretty much state-specific , so maybe best to re-post with yours in the title.

[Tspringer]

Originally Posted by rbk

Where?

USA - boat is in Maryland. I am in GA.

[john61ct]

https://www.google.com/search?q=site...land+insurance

[RickG]

I was happy with Jack Martin in Annapolis with insurance through Markel. I would still be with them, but Markel is not writing policies for the Caribbean.

When we bought our current boat there were issues that need to be addressed (below water thru hulls, etc.) that had to be addressed before the boat was splashed to comply with insurance. I provided vendor receipts for the work as proof of compliance.

Cheers, RickG

[Tspringer]

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

No broker has the authority to guarantee prospectively any underwriter’s determination of insurability. Any one who tells you otherwise is wrong.

Although I understand your desire here, that’s not how it works.

Rather, you need to find an underwriter who will insure the boat as-is with the stipulation coverage doesnt apply until repairs are completed to their satisfaction. Some underwriters will do that while others won’t. But in no case can a broker guarantee what they say or do.

It’s your move first, not theirs.

I am not asking the broker to guarantee anything - I am asking the broker to get the underwriter to provide a document saying that when everything is repaired then they will extend coverage. I am aware that a broker cannot guarantee anything.

There is financing involved. The lender will not fund without insurance.

So far, based on everything I have gotten back from underwriting - I am 99% sure that the underwriters have not bothered to actually read the survey. Example - they are saying they require port risk ashore coverage restrictions until ALL recs are cleared. Some of the recs are things like "replacing engine belts at next service is prudent maintenance". So the underwriter thinks the boat will sink if an alternator belt breaks? No... they just dont bother to actually read the survey.

[john61ct]

Paying for a survey intended for insurance purposes is very different from one revealing what a prospective buyer needs for negotiating with a seller.

Can surveyors produce two separate documents from one gig?

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Paying for a survey intended for insurance purposes is very different from one revealing what a prospective buyer needs for negotiating with a seller.

Can surveyors produce two separate documents from one gig?

Would be feasible to do obviously, but could present ethical/legal? issues for the surveyor.

I know a couple of surveyors who wont do "insurance" surveys...they only do one kind of survey: a complete one. I also know others who are considerably more flexible, and a couple who are just corrupt.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Tspringer

I am not asking the broker to guarantee anything - I am asking the broker to get the underwriter to provide a document saying that when everything is repaired then they will extend coverage. I am aware that a broker cannot guarantee anything.

There is financing involved. The lender will not fund without insurance.

So far, based on everything I have gotten back from underwriting - I am 99% sure that the underwriters have not bothered to actually read the survey. Example - they are saying they require port risk ashore coverage restrictions until ALL recs are cleared. Some of the recs are things like "replacing engine belts at next service is prudent maintenance". So the underwriter thinks the boat will sink if an alternator belt breaks? No... they just dont bother to actually read the survey.

If the underwriter is offering you a Port Risk only policy, then you have what you need to close, insurance coverage. It is very tupical for insurance companies to require all survey recommendations to be completed.
As to the alternator belt, yes the boat could sink because of it. The belt breaks, the engine overheats and shutsdown, the boat drifts into a breakwater. Likely, no, but something that the insurance would have to cover. So easy to fix, why sweat it?

[olaf hart]

Never buy a boat on finance...

[Tspringer]

Originally Posted by Paul L

As to the alternator belt, yes the boat could sink because of it. The belt breaks, the engine overheats and shutsdown, the boat drifts into a breakwater. Likely, no, but something that the insurance would have to cover. So easy to fix, why sweat it?

Yes, of course.... ANY deficiency can cause the boat to sink.

Tiny cracks in the gel-coat on deck? The captain see's it, has a heart attack and falls overboard where he dies, the boat continues ahead, runs aground and sinks.

So sure, you can construe literally anything as an unacceptable risk to the boat. But if insurance underwriters do this - only brand spanking new never used once boats would be insurable and even most of those would fail the test.

The bigger point is that the surveyor very clearly noted 2 distinct types of issues in the survey. First, "Essential Repairs" and then "Recommendations". The latter category clearly is meant to indicate prudent maintenance measures for any newly purchased used boat. Things it would be smart to do. NOT things that represent an imminent risk to the boat. But the underwriter makes no distinction at all between these. They require literally anything noted on the survey to be corrected prior to closing. This is what makes no sense and has me seeking other insurance options.

As to the other poster who just could not resist making the inevitable elitist snarky comment about never financing a boat.... how about you manage YOUR finances and I will manage mine. I hope you got the little ego boost you sought.