Watermaker Owners: What's your TDS/ppm????

[sv Stella Maris]

Those numbers are perfect. I have owned, installed, and serviced multiple brands and types (including CruiseRO)

Generally, water taste has nothing to do with your RO system. Consider a typical under-sink RO system in a house: it will typically have 1 or 2 carbon filters before the RO membrane, then another after the accumulator tank before it comes out the product spout. That is 3 carbon filters at work to eliminate odour and taste.

PM me for any other specific questions. My family of now (10) lived exclusively off our desal units for a few years with great success.

[kryg]

Yesterday I just made 200 litres of fresh water PPM 188, I would change the pre filter 20 micron at 250-300 PPM Max, I would never use water at 300 PPM. also, I have installed an inline product water sterilizing UV light to reduce risk of getting ill.
I would change all 20 and 5-micron prefilters at 300 PPM. I would never ever use water above 260 PPM unless I boiled it as a precaution.
As a guild; Rain water is about 45 to 75 PPM in my area. so in my view 500 PPM is a crazy risk to your health.
Tip; best purchase a second TDS and double check your PPM readings as I find some of them are not reading correctly. Always use the higher PPM reading TDS as the best indicator not the lowest reading.
PS I was once ill for a year drinking product water as it had bacteria what could not be treated with anti-biotic medication easily, for this is the reason I have a UV sterilizing light Just in case. I know they state that the membrane is to prevent bacteria from passing the membrane into the product water, in my experience it may not be true.

Water gives life, your healthy life depended on it, take every care when making it

Originally Posted by mvweebles

I installed a CruiseRO 30 GPH (two membrane) watermaker 2-months ago. Have gone from Ensenada to Mazatlan and made water in remote anchorages and underway, under 400 gallons total. I'm seeing TDS of 250-270 ppm - is that typical? CruiseRO sais 270 ppm is "perfect" that anything under 500 ppm is good drinking water. My wife thinks there's a slight off-taste.

Thoughts?

[Captain Bill]

I built my own in 2014 using a cat pump, a 1.5hp 120v motor and a 4021 membrane along with assorted fittings. I use a water puppy boost pump and a 20 micron and 5 micron prefilter. When the membrane was new I was getting about 100 ppm. Last summer I was getting about 275 ppm. The membrane remained pickled during 2020 and 2021 as there was no where to go where I needed it so the membrane has about 7 years of use. I went to Maine and back in 2022 when it was holding at about 255 ppm. Production was a bit below my usual 30 gph in the colder waters of new england but I didn't notice much difference in quality. RO water always tastes kind of flat to me and I seem to feel thirsty if I drink plain RO water. If I use it in a flavored drink like tea I don't notice that effect.

[GreenWave]

PPM is not directly related to water quality in terms of what can cause you life threatening illnesses. Biological contaminants can be in ANY water. You could put 20 ppm water in a crapper and that would not be good.

[Captain Bill]

Originally Posted by GreenWave

PPM is not directly related to water quality in terms of what can cause you life threatening illnesses. Biological contaminants can be in ANY water. You could put 20 ppm water in a crapper and that would not be good.

No biological contaminates can make it through an intact RO membrane. That does not mean contaminates cannot get into your water supply system from other sources It's always a good idea to chlorinate and flush your storage system on a regular basis or use a UV system. I personally do this anytime I have not used the system for a couple of months and use a Seagull filter for all drinking and food prep water.

[GreenWave]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

No biological contaminates can make it through an intact RO membrane. That does not mean contaminates cannot get into your water supply system from other sources It's always a good idea to chlorinate and flush your storage system on a regular basis or use a UV system. I personally do this anytime I have not used the system for a couple of months and use a Seagull filter for all drinking and food prep water.

That was mostly my point. We filter our water for drinking through a Brita. Tastes good and is safe. Why? Because the tanks and lines could have contaminants, and guess what… this problem is not unique to boats.

[SV Coronado]

I just tested my water’s PPM the other day. I have a Dessalator Duo 100 watermaker with three membranes. We’re currently making water in the leeward islands of the Caribbean. I measured 290 out of one tank and 300 out of the other. I measured the tanks independently because I suspect one is dirtier than the other.

[s/v Jedi]

The reason the ppm testers are helpful is that salt molecules, of which there are many in seawater, are very small and they show up in ppm testing perfectly.

So a low ppm test means almost all the salt molecules are removed and thus everything that is larger is removed too.

I store the watermaker output straight into fiberglass tanks that are integral to the hull. My water pumps first have a strainer on their input, then after the pumps I have a 5 micron sediment filter. After that the line splits in two: one goes straight into a 0.5 micron carbon block filter. The output of that goes to the watermaker flush as well as a consumption water faucet in the galley. The other line supplies all other faucets, toilets etc.

[BlueH2Obound]

Peter, as you know, we have the SeaWaterPro, 4gph, two membrane system, purchased and placed into service in May of 2022
In service 19 months from Glacier Bay Alaska, to Sea of Cortez:

Total run time: 194.4 hours
Total water produced: 5605 gallons
Average production: 28.8 gph
Lowest observed inlet water temp: 68 deg F
Highest observed inlet water temp: 88 deg F
Lowest TDS observed: 68 ppm
Highest TDS observed: 102 ppm
Average TDS: 82 ppm, (from personal daily observations).

Note: The TDS readings above, recorded from the TDS meter that came standard with the SeaWaterPro, have also been verified with a standalone TDS meter similar to this one:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B085VLJJPH...v_ov_lig_pi_dp

As I understand the system, the most common reason for high TDS is either a failed or faulty membrane(s), or a failed or faulty membrane housing or seals.

If I remember correctly CruiseRO gave you replacement membrane(s), the changing of which did not significantly reduce your high TDS readings. I would highly recommend you request that they provide you with brand new, assembled membranes and housings. I suspect you have a faulty housing, either a minute flaw in the seal mating surface, a bad o-ring, or a minuscule crack in the housing.

It's unfortunate that you've had so many issues with your CruiseRO unit. Did you ever get the CruiseRO backflush timer to work correctly? Haven't they sent you a replacement (or two)?

I personally feel that 270 ppm for a brand new RO water system is unacceptable, especially since we were producing fresh water with our system, in the same proximity and time as you, in identical salinity, water temp, etc, from Ensenada to La Paz, and getting TDS readings less than 1/3 or yours, on 19 month old membranes that had already produced over 5000 gallons of fresh water.

Stating that 270 ppm is normal, when we are averaging 82 ppm is . . . . well, not what you should be getting.

Are the CruiseRO membranes provided with your system manufactured by DOW or DuPont, or are they no name membranes?

CruiseRO needs to step up and fix the problem. If they agree to provide new membranes and housings, we can arrange to pick them up here in La Paz, and bring them to Mazatlan, if you can delay your departure from Mazatlan by a few days.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by BlueH2Obound

Peter, as you know, we have the SeaWaterPro, 4gph, two membrane system, purchased and placed into service in May of 2022
In service 19 months from Glacier Bay Alaska, to Sea of Cortez:

Total run time: 194.4 hours
Total water produced: 5605 gallons
Average production: 28.8 gph
Lowest observed inlet water temp: 68 deg F
Highest observed inlet water temp: 88 deg F
Lowest TDS observed: 68 ppm
Highest TDS observed: 102 ppm
Average TDS: 82 ppm, (from personal daily observations).

Note: The TDS readings above, recorded from the TDS meter that came standard with the SeaWaterPro, have also been verified with a standalone TDS meter similar to this one:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B085VLJJPH...v_ov_lig_pi_dp

As I understand the system, the most common reason for high TDS is either a failed or faulty membrane(s), or a failed or faulty membrane housing or seals.

If I remember correctly CruiseRO gave you replacement membrane(s), the changing of which did not significantly reduce your high TDS readings. I would highly recommend you request that they provide you with brand new, assembled membranes and housings. I suspect you have a faulty housing, either a minute flaw in the seal mating surface, a bad o-ring, or a minuscule crack in the housing.

It's unfortunate that you've had so many issues with your CruiseRO unit. Did you ever get the CruiseRO backflush timer to work correctly? Haven't they sent you a replacement (or two)?

I personally feel that 270 ppm for a brand new RO water system is unacceptable, especially since we were producing fresh water with our system, in the same proximity and time as you, in identical salinity, water temp, etc, from Ensenada to La Paz, and getting TDS readings less than 1/3 or yours, on 19 month old membranes that had already produced over 5000 gallons of fresh water.

Stating that 270 ppm is normal, when we are averaging 82 ppm is . . . . well, not what you should be getting.

Are the CruiseRO membranes provided with your system manufactured by DOW or DuPont, or are they no name membranes?

CruiseRO needs to step up and fix the problem. If they agree to provide new membranes and housings, we can arrange to pick them up here in La Paz, and bring them to Mazatlan, if you can delay your departure from Mazatlan by a few days.

If you have 82ppm average from pure sea water so not brackish in any form, then it’s time you start questioning your meter.

130-250 ppm are quite normal readings.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by BlueH2Obound

Peter, as you know, we have the SeaWaterPro, 4gph, two membrane system, purchased and placed into service in May of 2022
In service 19 months from Glacier Bay Alaska, to Sea of Cortez:

Total run time: 194.4 hours
Total water produced: 5605 gallons
Average production: 28.8 gph
Lowest observed inlet water temp: 68 deg F
Highest observed inlet water temp: 88 deg F
Lowest TDS observed: 68 ppm
Highest TDS observed: 102 ppm
Average TDS: 82 ppm, (from personal daily observations).

Note: The TDS readings above, recorded from the TDS meter that came standard with the SeaWaterPro, have also been verified with a standalone TDS meter similar to this one:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B085VLJJPH...v_ov_lig_pi_dp

As I understand the system, the most common reason for high TDS is either a failed or faulty membrane(s), or a failed or faulty membrane housing or seals.

If I remember correctly CruiseRO gave you replacement membrane(s), the changing of which did not significantly reduce your high TDS readings. I would highly recommend you request that they provide you with brand new, assembled membranes and housings. I suspect you have a faulty housing, either a minute flaw in the seal mating surface, a bad o-ring, or a minuscule crack in the housing.

It's unfortunate that you've had so many issues with your CruiseRO unit. Did you ever get the CruiseRO backflush timer to work correctly? Haven't they sent you a replacement (or two)?

I personally feel that 270 ppm for a brand new RO water system is unacceptable, especially since we were producing fresh water with our system, in the same proximity and time as you, in identical salinity, water temp, etc, from Ensenada to La Paz, and getting TDS readings less than 1/3 or yours, on 19 month old membranes that had already produced over 5000 gallons of fresh water.

Stating that 270 ppm is normal, when we are averaging 82 ppm is . . . . well, not what you should be getting.

Are the CruiseRO membranes provided with your system manufactured by DOW or DuPont, or are they no name membranes?

CruiseRO needs to step up and fix the problem. If they agree to provide new membranes and housings, we can arrange to pick them up here in La Paz, and bring them to Mazatlan, if you can delay your departure from Mazatlan by a few days.

Okay, the backstory here. My system came with a dual membrane setup. When I first commissioned it, the TDS was off the charts - 800 ppm, which was verified by a borrowed handheld meter. One membrane was clearly bad. CruiseRO gave me a replacement membrane that I have not installed yet. So I am running on a single membrane that is reading a consistent 250-270 in 75-degree water. At some point in the next few weeks, I'll install the new membrane and see where it lands.

I've also purchased a second TDS meter so should be able to get a view from that.

As an aside, I do NOT recommend CruiseROs TDS meter or their auto-flush systems. In my opinion, they are overly complicated to wire into the system, especially the autoflush setup which is quite large and expensive (a $700 option). The sole reason someone may want to go with the CruiseRO auto flush is you can leave your house pressure water pump off - the timer will turn it on while back flushing, then turn off, if that's important to you. I have decided to abandon the CruiseRO auto flush in favor of a simple garden hose timer and a check valve setup for around $60. Much easier to set, and I've used them at my house for 15 years with only occasional change of batteries.

[BlueH2Obound]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

If you have 82ppm average from pure sea water so not brackish in any form, then it’s time you start questioning your meter.

130-250 ppm are quite normal readings.

Jedi, I appreciate the input, but as stated in my post, you'll see that we've already verified the TDS numbers with a standalone meter. Actually, we tested it with TWO additional, standalone meters. I suppose it's possible that all three, or 100% of the meters we used to test the TDS of the output water used were ALL faulty, and ALL providing exactly (or within two or three ppm) incorrect readings . . . . but I would suggest that that would be . . . . unlikely. YMMV

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by BlueH2Obound

Jedi, I appreciate the input, but as stated in my post, you'll see that we've already verified the TDS numbers with a standalone meter. Actually, we tested it with TWO additional, standalone meters. I suppose it's possible that all three, or 100% of the meters we used to test the TDS of the output water used were ALL faulty, and ALL providing exactly (or within two or three ppm) incorrect readings . . . . but I would suggest that that would be . . . . unlikely. YMMV

You may well have the magic perfect membranes then and I recommend you take very good care of them because you will never get these again.

A simple Google for “watermaker average ppm” will show you 18,700 results and not one of them that I could find matches you. 200-500ppm is the consensus for the average over the lifespan of the membranes.

Which manufacturer do you have and which model and year?

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

CruiseRO gave me a replacement membrane that I have not installed yet. So I am running on a single membrane that is reading a consistent 250-270 in 75-degree water. At some point in the next few weeks, I'll install the new membrane and see where it lands.
.

Well we will know the real answer when you do the replacement membrane.

Personally I feel for the age of your system your TDS is high and that is is a membrane or o-ring problem

[BlueH2Obound]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

You may well have the magic perfect membranes then and I recommend you take very good care of them because you will never get these again.

A simple Google for “watermaker average ppm” will show you 18,700 results and not one of them that I could find matches you. 200-500ppm is the consensus for the average over the lifespan of the membranes.

Which manufacturer do you have and which model and year?

The "average" reported above implies that there are readings higher and readings lower than the "average", perhaps significantly higher or lower, it doesn't say. It looks like the readings from ours are one of the "Lower" readings . . .

Since you asked, we have a SeaWaterPro 110 vac 40gph (two DOW Filmtec 40" SW30-2540 Reverse Osmosis Membranes). I would highly recommend it.

https://seawaterpro.com/products/110...41104560652448

Purchased and installed in May of 2022.

I may indeed have a "unicorn". My experience with water makers is limited but the readings that I am getting are what I am getting, based on three different type and brand TDS meters, one that came with my unit, and two handheld models of different brands.

I just ordered ANOTHER portable TDS meter, so we'll see if the latest one agrees with the three previous meters, you know, the ones that all read within 2-3 ppm of each other.

Like I stated before, maybe ALL THREE of the meters, of different types, and manufacturer, are ALL coincidentally reading within 2 - 3 ppm of each other, and ALL THREE of them are in error. I suppose it could happen . . . .

The other possibility is that all three TDS meters that are reading within 2 - 3 ppm of each other are . . . . . . well . . . . reading accurately.