Intruder in the Middle of the Night

[Jdege]

Originally Posted by Jason Flare

I’m pretty sure you’re not allowed to use a gun for defense in Canada.

Is it a crime, in Canada, to lie to an intruder?

[Jason Flare]

Originally Posted by Jdege

Is it a crime, in Canada, to lie to an intruder?

I have no idea.

I do know that everything’s illegal in Massachusetts.

ETA:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xBdpINm9UBU

[Jason Flare]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I get it... You live in a more dangerous, violent society that I.

I’d be afraid to make a statement like that. That’s just bad juju.

I’m sure Canada has the facts to back it up but considering most Canadians are probably human they’re going to go bonkers and run people over with trucks or shoot up Toronto once in a while.

I wouldn’t even hint at living in a less dangerous, less violent society, never mind say it out loud. Gives me the shivers.

Bad juju.

[macaco]

oh ya Canada's sooooo safe.. Toronto now has a higher murder rate than New York City!
https://www.blogto.com/city/2018/06/...gher-new-york/

[Jason Flare]

Originally Posted by macaco

oh ya Canada's sooooo safe.. Toronto now has a higher murder rate than New York City!
https://www.blogto.com/city/2018/06/...gher-new-york/

I told Mike O’Reily it was bad juju.


That didn’t take long at all.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Jason Flare

I’d be afraid to make a statement like that. That’s just bad juju.

I’m sure Canada has the facts to back it up but considering most Canadians are probably human they’re going to go bonkers and run people over with trucks or shoot up Toronto once in a while.

I wouldn’t even hint at living in a less dangerous, less violent society, never mind say it out loud. Gives me the shivers.

Bad juju.

Could be , but it is a fact. Canada’s rate of violent crime is, indeed all forms of crime, is significantly lower than the USA. Here’s a nice comparison of the stats:

Canada and United States Compared: NationMaster.com

Yes, Toronto is experiencing a bad bout of violence. Interestingly, most of the weapons used in these attacks have been sourced back to the USA, so thanks for that…

DotDun, you seem intent on being angry about this thread (or just me, I suppose). First off, I played your little game and picked the highest number. I’ll pick a higher one if that makes you feel better.

I stated a psychological FACT, that people are affected by their environment, and that people who live in a more violent, distrustful society tend to react in this way. The USA has a significantly lower interpersonal trust level (and trust in institutions) than most other developed nations.

I stated that SW Florida (which is your “Location” identifier), is by any cursory examination of the data, one of the more crime-ridden of your states. Given this, I suggested that a more aggressive response might be appropriate here given the OP’s situation. BUT, I stated clearly I’ve never been there, and wouldn’t have much to say if this OP’s scenario took place there.

I went on to say I DO know the area the OP is talking about, so am qualified to make some sort of judgement based on the facts. And I suggested you may want to follow the same approach.

This may be hard for you to appreciate, but I try and base my comments on actual knowledge and fact. If we all did this here, there would be a lot less acrimony.

[Jason Flare]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Yes, Toronto is experiencing a bad bout of violence. Interestingly, most of the weapons used in these attacks have been sourced back to the USA, so thanks for that…

Here you go with the bad juju again.

Unless US citizens are coming into Canada are shooting the place up the criminal is the Canadian.

In my experience guns are inanimate objects and are unable to get people to do stuff.

But here’s one you can’t blame on guns from the US:


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the...hest-rate/amp/

So, there’s a spike in murders in London with the weapon of choice being, largely, knives

There’s a spike in murders in Toronto with the weapon of choice being either trucks or guns.

Bad juju to blame the weapon.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Jason Flare

Here you go with the bad juju again.

Unless US citizens are coming into Canada are shooting the place up the criminal is the Canadian.

In my experience guns are inanimate objects and are unable to get people to do stuff. ...

Sorry, my bad . I didn’t mean to open this up to a gun debate. Lets move on...

[Prairie Chicken]

I think the OP's response was measured and appropriate. He was there; his gut told him how to react.

Good work by his Security Officer.

Assuming the swimmer had bad intentions, it seems to me he was a dumb thief. Swimming isn't what I'd call a fast get-away, and you can't carry much loot. Of course, he may have been planning to use the dinghy, but I'm thinking he was just dumb.

[Jason Flare]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Sorry, my bad . I didn’t mean to open this up to a gun debate. Lets move on...

Smart move.

[Olddan1943]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Sorry, my bad . I didn’t mean to open this up to a gun debate. Lets move on...

Ah ha, all your fault.
Shame shame shame all over you.

[hellosailor]

The late JB Bonds, former head of the USYRU, Annapolis graduate, former USN captain, and an officer and a gentlemen in every way, once told me that he was part of a small crew delivering a boat north on the ICW. Early one morning the picked up a distress hail from another boat anchored in the ICW, pretty much the middle of nowhere (Georgia, IIRC) claiming their engine was dead and they needed to get someone to the next town.
OK, strip down, swim over, we'll take you there. Mind you, only one guy is seen from the other boat.
He's halfway to the delivery boat when the second crew, who had been quietly sent below for the double-barrel shotgun, pops up in the cockpit. The swimmer turned around, went back to his boat, and mysteriously their engine started up and off they went.
JB said it was the only time he's had to show a weapon on a boat, the only time he'd had a potential piracy problem, and it was right here at home in the ICW.

Why the shotgun? Why have the stranger strip down? Very simple, JB knew what "threat assessment" meant, and how to keep himself and his vessel safe.

So yes, every nice man in the water is NOT your faerie godfather.

[ramblinrod]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Could be , but it is a fact. Canada’s rate of violent crime is, indeed all forms of crime, is significantly lower than the USA. Here’s a nice comparison of the stats:

Canada and United States Compared: NationMaster.com

Yes, Toronto is experiencing a bad bout of violence. Interestingly, most of the weapons used in these attacks have been sourced back to the USA, so thanks for that…

DotDun, you seem intent on being angry about this thread (or just me, I suppose). First off, I played your little game and picked the highest number. I’ll pick a higher one if that makes you feel better.

I stated a psychological FACT, that people are affected by their environment, and that people who live in a more violent, distrustful society tend to react in this way. The USA has a significantly lower interpersonal trust level (and trust in institutions) than most other developed nations.

I stated that SW Florida (which is your “Location” identifier), is by any cursory examination of the data, one of the more crime-ridden of your states. Given this, I suggested that a more aggressive response might be appropriate here given the OP’s situation. BUT, I stated clearly I’ve never been there, and wouldn’t have much to say if this OP’s scenario took place there.

I went on to say I DO know the area the OP is talking about, so am qualified to make some sort of judgement based on the facts. And I suggested you may want to follow the same approach.

This may be hard for you to appreciate, but I try and base my comments on actual knowledge and fact. If we all did this here, there would be a lot less acrimony.

I think the point is, even if there was a 98% chance the guy didn’t have bad intentions, if he doesn’t get aboard, there’s a 0% instead of 2% chance he could steal something or hurt somebody.

You don’t board people’s boats uninvited in the middle of the night.

We told the story to a retired cop in the next anchorage and he advised the swimmers intentions were not likely honourable, and that my response was completely appropriate.

From my standpoint, my response proved effective, achieving the desired outcome. A guys atempt to board my boat uninvited in the middle of the night was thwarted. He lived to regret it and hopefully learned an invaluable lesson.

Don’t invade people’s homes.

[Olddan1943]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

I think the point is, even if there was a 98% chance the guy didn’t have bad intentions, if he doesn’t get aboard, there’s a 0% instead of 2% chance he could steal something or hurt somebody.

You don’t board people’s boats uninvited in the middle of the night.

We told the story to a retired cop in the next anchorage and he advised the swimmers intentions were not likely honourable, and that my response was completely appropriate.

From my standpoint, my response proved effective, achieving the desired outcome. A guys atempt to board my boat uninvited in the middle of the night was thwarted. He lived to regret it and hopefully learned an invaluable lesson.

Don’t invade people’s homes.

I guess you could wait until he breaks in, steps totally inside the boat and then explain to the authorities', you were in fear for your life and 'off' him but then, things get so messy. I am not sure your insurance company will pay for the clean up. And then, all the "He was a good boy.... " speeches from his mama and then the way the media will spin it.
So if you are going to shoot the intruder, dont shoot to wound. You could end up in court for years.
It may sound may sound mean and nasty and cruel and totally uncalled for but, you have no idea of the intruder's intentions. Hence, in 'fear of your life and the life of wife, children etc.'
Of course there is another alternative, let him make a water escape or take his ID so you can give it to the cops and then, let him escape or "secure him" until the police arrive but then, it boils down from his word against your word.
Once the intruder is totally in the boat, do what your conscious will allow and the decision you can live with.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by ramblinrod

I think the point is, even if there was a 98% chance the guy didn’t have bad intentions, if he doesn’t get aboard, there’s a 0% instead of 2% chance he could steal something or hurt somebody.

You don’t board people’s boats uninvited in the middle of the night.

We told the story to a retired cop in the next anchorage and he advised the swimmers intentions were not likely honourable, and that my response was completely appropriate.

From my standpoint, my response proved effective, achieving the desired outcome. A guys atempt to board my boat uninvited in the middle of the night was thwarted. He lived to regret it and hopefully learned an invaluable lesson.

Don’t invade people’s homes.

Rod,

Hard to believe, but I agree with you!

Apparently, we are both wrong! We've been told, armed with local knowledge and facts, that Canadians are a different species, they don't do nefarious things, and anytime something bad happens, it can be traced back to the USA....

Next time, break out the cookies and milk, it's just some child doing something stupid.