I Can't Believe I'm Starting a Gun Thread

[Kelkara]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Although, I've never seen the stats for black bears in the UK, where they also exist.

umm ... the only bears (not in captivity) in the UK are Winnie-the-Pooh and Paddington ... and I'm not aware that either of them have mauled anyone to death recently.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

While they may generally be on point (i.e. hollowpoint bullets are not designed to penetrate thick skulls) they also seem to be working on a different time scale. " On the other hand, they [black bears] have been known to attack unprovoked and often kill people."

Statistics all seem to say "rarely" kill people, not often. Perhaps once or twice a year in all of North America. Although, I've never seen the stats for black bears in the UK, where they also exist.

We have a few black bears here, so I'm told. A black bear and polar bear are entirely two different critters. I can't see killing either. But comparing what it would take to bring one down? That's apples and oranges. JMHO

[hellosailor]

Happened across mention of black bears in the UK on the BBC last week, and up until then I also believed the only bear in all of the UK was Paddington. Nope. IIRC there are some 1200 of them estimated to be wandering about unsupervised, wearing neither Wellies nor hats.

I only mentioned black bears because that was what the article being referenced was talking about. They made no mention of "polar bear attacks" or of polar bears eating people, so they mis-stated no stats about polar bears.

[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

...Statistics all seem to say "rarely" kill people, not often. Perhaps once or twice a year in all of North America...

These statistics only show fatalities. There are many maulings each year.

[Kelkara]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Happened across mention of black bears in the UK on the BBC last week, and up until then I also believed the only bear in all of the UK was Paddington. Nope. IIRC there are some 1200 of them estimated to be wandering about unsupervised, wearing neither Wellies nor hats.

Well I don't know what kind of fake-news that was, but you were better informed before reading it:
1) There have never been Black Bears in the UK ... European bears are a species of Brown Bear.
2) Wild bears were hunted to extinction in the UK about 1000 years ago.
3) Unlike some animals (e.g. the beaver and lynx), there has been no attempt to reintroduce bears.

There ain't no bears out there ... black, brown or white.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

Happened across mention of black bears in the UK on the BBC last week, and up until then I also believed the only bear in all of the UK was Paddington. Nope. IIRC there are some 1200 of them estimated to be wandering about unsupervised, wearing neither Wellies nor hats.

Trust me, there are not 1200 black bears wandering around free in the UK. There is a rumour of a Panther or similar large cat on Dartmoor and a dinosaur lives in a Scottish Loch, but otherwise nope no bears. I doubt we even have that many in all the UK zoos.

Pete

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Jdege

The old four bores were known as "stopping guns".

African safari guides would carry them and walk behind the hunter. The hunter might be carrying a .600 Nitro Express. And when the hunter bounced a round of a rhino skull, the guide wanted something that not so much kill a charging animal as something that would drop it in it's tracks.

Are you recommending one of these to meet the needs of the OP?

How far do you think you could carry one? if a planned day out mountain walking was scheduled?

Pete

[RPZ]

4 bores are incredibly hard to shoot and will literally take you off your feet if not held correctly. Even shooting the old .600 Nitro Express, and many modern .40 and up cartridges are way beyond the practical shooting abilities of the average person.

More practical, and effective, are the .30 to .375 calibers when loaded with heavy, controlled expansion bullets.

[Jdege]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Are you recommending one of these to meet the needs of the OP?

How far do you think you could carry one? if a planned day out mountain walking was scheduled?

Pete

If my job was to follow some rich ******* around the veldt ready to deal with whatever he managed to wound but not kill, I might.

But that's not something on my planned career trajectory.

If I was just going on a walk in bear country, I'd look at a handy carbine in .44 mag.

[buzzstar]

If the 9 mm bullet is so ineffective, why are there so many laws against carrying the weapons that shoot them? Yeah, I agree in polar bear country one is better off with a larger caliber (or bigger bore if carrying a shotgun) but the 9 mm will anger government officials everywhere. BTW, the next time I try the NW Passage I will probably have a 12 gauge, a .357 magnum, and a 9 mm. No rifle included since I would not want to shoot offensively, just defensively, and only if necessary. The 9 mm is for the Leopard seals on the prowl. The others are for the polar bears, depending upon size and range. Time for the moderators to stop the nonsense and misinformation, or is it all plain, unadulterated malarkey? If I visit Greenland I will obey the local rules.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by buzzstar

BTW, the next time I try the NW Passage I will probably have a 12 gauge, a .357 magnum, and a 9 mm. No rifle included since I would not want to shoot offensively, just defensively, and only if necessary. The 9 mm is for the Leopard seals on the prowl.

Are you saying you couldn't out walk a Leopard Seal?

Also are you really expecting to encounter them on a NW Passage trip, if so global cooling has really taken hold.

Pete

[Kita]

Originally Posted by buzzstar

If the 9 mm bullet is so ineffective, why are there so many laws against carrying the weapons that shoot them? Yeah, I agree in polar bear country one is better off with a larger caliber (or bigger bore if carrying a shotgun) but the 9 mm will anger government officials everywhere. BTW, the next time I try the NW Passage I will probably have a 12 gauge, a .357 magnum, and a 9 mm. No rifle included since I would not want to shoot offensively, just defensively, and only if necessary. The 9 mm is for the Leopard seals on the prowl. The others are for the polar bears, depending upon size and range. Time for the moderators to stop the nonsense and misinformation, or is it all plain, unadulterated malarkey? If I visit Greenland I will obey the local rules.

I will try to answer,the country's that are angry about the 9mm are just against weapons..the 9mm is popular for a couple reasons, one large magazine capacity. .two low collateral damage. If a person is shot with a 9mm it's highly unlikely that that round is going to go clean through them and then potentially damage someone else. That's the same reason that the 38 caliber was very popular for a long time.. most likely when someone gets shot there is a traumatic thing that goes on in the mind and they realize they've been shot and they just stop doing whatever it was that created that situation. So normally with most situations that's enough. But if you were to shoot something like a bear that is determined then it's highly unlikely that's enough Firepower to get the job done.

[Kelkara]

Originally Posted by buzzstar

BTW, the next time I try the NW Passage I will probably have a 12 gauge, a .357 magnum, and a 9 mm. No rifle included since I would not want to shoot offensively, just defensively, and only if necessary
...
If I visit Greenland I will obey the local rules.

Since you're into rule following, then remember that most of the NWP is in Canada, and your handguns will be illegal outside Alaska.

[hellosailor]

"If the 9 mm bullet is so ineffective, why are there so many laws against carrying the weapons that shoot them?"
Perhaps you could either cite any one such law, or restate the question?
AFAIK there are no laws specifically banning 9mm weapons. All of the laws that happen to include 9mm weapons in bans, generally ban entire classes of weapons, such as "automatic rifles" or "handguns", and that would include the .357 and often BB guns as well, in the same sweeping breadth.

Now, carrying a .357 AND a 9mm, when the .357 alone could cover both jobs, that seems a little overboard to me. Granted the 9mm will save you ammunition costs, but you'd have to shoot a lot of seals to make up that cost saving.

[buzzstar]

OMG. No knowledge or humor left in this forum, just negative emotion. Actually I was going to keep the leopard seal at gunpoint and force it to protect me against polar bears, even grizzlies masquerading in white. Do you really think I am going to encounter many members of the RCMP while doing the NW Passage, particularly if I do not publish my secret ice free route? The actual important things have been said on this thread, time to shut it down.